Man of Honour
Makes sense to me, money is rarely the only reason to move jobs. It may be what sealed the deal but there's usually another reason you start keeping your ear to the ground in the first place.
Argh, counter offer?!
- Thread starter Haggisman
- Start date
Makes sense to me, money is rarely the only reason to move jobs. It may be what sealed the deal but there's usually another reason you start keeping your ear to the ground in the first place.
Yup; the main issue is the long commute (currently at least an hour each way to the customer's site) and the fact that I'm not really doing what I want there (software support, whereas my official role is product development).
If I was in the office doing my proper role rather than on this customer's site, I probably wouldn't be looking to move; however my concern is that they'd bring me back in, then 6 months down the line I'm back out doing something else - I know there were "reasons" for me being seconded, which are unlikely to occur again, however it's still a possibility.
Money wise, the new position wouldn't actually make me hugely better off - I currently get my mileage to the customer site paid for, and after i've paid for my fuel/consumables, I still have maybe £100-£150/month of that left in my pocket (I realise that's towards the cost of buying the car/depreciation, but I'd have to pay most of that regardless). It's less than the increase in salary would get me, but does reduce the difference.
Financially I'd be (marginally; i.e. the difference in fuel expenditure) better off staying if they were to match the salary.
Soldato
I am serious.
http://www.ethossearchgroup.com/never-accept-a-counter-offer/
Loads of stuff about it.
Soldato
Did you not try get the counter offer first before negotiating (a higher) salary on the new job? Rookie mistake OP!
Yeah... I wanted to make sure it was 100% before saying anything! :/
Soldato
Just phone new job and ask for more? (they can only say no)
Obviously phrase it more delicately..
Obviously phrase it more delicately..
If you are going to go back to the new job and ask for more make sure it is clear they are your preferred option and you are only doing so because having sat down and done your sums you need it to make up the shortfall in travel expenses or some other plausible reason rather than just "current job has matched the offer so you need to give me more to move innit".
However given that you've formally accepted the offer already I would see this as bad form, it would be more a card to play following a chat with your current employer to elicit the offer but before accepting in writing.
However given that you've formally accepted the offer already I would see this as bad form, it would be more a card to play following a chat with your current employer to elicit the offer but before accepting in writing.
A matched counter-offer, salary wise, is usually just a band aid but they seem to be willing to address your location and progression.
That said, from an employers perspective, I'd be wondering why if you felt this strongly and were than unhappy you didn't voice these concerns. Perhaps they were and were ignored?
They obviously value you & would like to keep you and I don't think you're too invested in the idea of the new company just yet.
Bear in mind 600 miles commuting each month will come with a cost, not just in terms of motoring that will eat in to the raise (no longer cycling, though 12m is easily do-able depending on the route) but also an hour out of your day.
These situations are far to subjective to be black and white.
That said, from an employers perspective, I'd be wondering why if you felt this strongly and were than unhappy you didn't voice these concerns. Perhaps they were and were ignored?
They obviously value you & would like to keep you and I don't think you're too invested in the idea of the new company just yet.
Bear in mind 600 miles commuting each month will come with a cost, not just in terms of motoring that will eat in to the raise (no longer cycling, though 12m is easily do-able depending on the route) but also an hour out of your day.
These situations are far to subjective to be black and white.
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Yup, as I said above I raised my concerns a few times and it was always met with a non-committal "we'll see what we can do".
Had a long chat with my manager yesterday, and while he was eager to keep me, he wasn't able to alleviate my concerns that the situation wouldn't improve in the near future.
The offer was basically to beat the raise by 25% (so 18% in total) and bring me back into the office, although there wasn't really any clarity on what I would be working on.
So... I declined and gave my notice.
Having (unsurprisingly) thought about it a lot over the last couple of days, I came to the conclusion that it would be silly to pass up on the opportunity, especially given that if I stay there's a strong possibility that I'd be in a similar situation in 6 months.
Staying with the current company may be the best thing to do in the short term (e.g. a couple of months), but I think more important is how I'm going to feel 6-12 months down the line when I've completed my probation, potentially had a payrise at the new company (which TBH I would be unlikely to get at the current place if they bump my pay up now to match), and am doing something I enjoy (hopefully!) with plenty of scope for progression.
Ultimately I guess I won't really know for 6 months+ whether I've made the "right" decision, but looking at it as objectively as possible, I think I have.
The fuel cost isn't a massive amount, 600 miles is a 1-1.5 tanks, so about £60-80. The convenience/time is a bit more of a factor, but then I guess it's only an extra ~15-20 mins each way, which is worth it for having a job I actually want to do! (And is a vast improvement over the 1hr+ each way I'm doing at the moment).
With all the information you've given us and how you feel about the situation I'd say you should be pretty confident about your decision.
You just need to look forward to your new job
.A bit of money won't rectify what looks to be fundamental issues with your current position with regards to what you're doing etc. You're correctly looking a bit more long term, and this new position looks like it will give you the mobility and career progression that might not be possible at your current employer at this time.
the counter offer is more than just money too though if they're addressing his issues such as progression, being off site etc.. by bringing him back to the office and sorting out a plan for progression
if the issue was he hated his boss then sure money isn't going to change that but in this instance he's offered more money plus his complaints addressed
Perhaps I've missed something here, but why did it take him getting another job offer for his complaints to be addressed?
Probably because the employer sees his value in working off-site as greater than this value working in the office, but they still want to keep hold of him in preference to him leaving altogether.
I know where you are coming from (i.e. the employer is only addressing issues when forced which implies they may act similarly in future rather than being focussed on employee desires) but it could be that in some scenarios if an employee has their immediate concerns addressed that they would consider there is no need to find another job in the short-medium term.
When I left my previous employer it was basically about money and I told them as much - they made a counter offer but it wasn't to a level I was happy with. I would have stayed if they gave me enough money (even if it was slightly less than the new salary due to increased travel costs/time). Even in my exit interview my manager said "it's not really about the money, is it?" as if they wanted some sort of assurance that they never had no chance of keeping hold of me and I said well actually, it kind of is just about the money! Yes there were some other minor issues but nothing I would have been that concerned about for a couple of years if I was being paid a fair salary.
Anyway it sounds like the right choice has been made as there's a fair chance this 'oh we'll find a job for you in the office' would change in a few months time when there is a pressing client need or somesuch.
I know where you are coming from (i.e. the employer is only addressing issues when forced which implies they may act similarly in future rather than being focussed on employee desires) but it could be that in some scenarios if an employee has their immediate concerns addressed that they would consider there is no need to find another job in the short-medium term.
When I left my previous employer it was basically about money and I told them as much - they made a counter offer but it wasn't to a level I was happy with. I would have stayed if they gave me enough money (even if it was slightly less than the new salary due to increased travel costs/time). Even in my exit interview my manager said "it's not really about the money, is it?" as if they wanted some sort of assurance that they never had no chance of keeping hold of me and I said well actually, it kind of is just about the money! Yes there were some other minor issues but nothing I would have been that concerned about for a couple of years if I was being paid a fair salary.
Anyway it sounds like the right choice has been made as there's a fair chance this 'oh we'll find a job for you in the office' would change in a few months time when there is a pressing client need or somesuch.
leverage, ditto to asking for more money, merely pushing for more can maybe get your manager's attention/get him to allocate slightly more of the pool of money he has to distribute to your pay/bonus... however if you hand in your notice you force their hand - it will cost a big chunk of cash to replace you, it will take months to get a new guy up to speed, they'll have to spend time interviewing, they may have to pay as much as you're leaving for anyway if market rates have gone up... suddenly there is extra money allocated that they can use to give you a rise that wasn't previously available in the finite pool your manager had for bonuses/raises
likewise - bringing someone back into the office and setting out some progression plan is also maybe going to cause them some pain/faffing but not as much pain as that person leaving
Yep, my point is really around if it's got as far as finding a new job - it's too late. If the employer doesn't know that the staff are upset or not motivated and it takes something like this to get attention, then it's not the kind of place that I would want to be hanging around.
handing in your notice provides you with more leverage in most workplaces and can get more done... just because you don't like something doesn't mean they're always going to change things for you - but having more to push for a change with can make it more likely to happen. That doesn't necessarily mean the workplace was bad, it is simply how these things work.
I disagree. The ability to hand in your notice provides you leverage but once you've actually done it a lot of companies will be of the view that you're not passionate about working there. If the company is not willing to listen to you without you having to resign, then it's not the place I would want to work personally.