I have spent all day looking on the HSE website and in regs/guidance but can't find an answer to this so if anybody knows the answer and where to find the documentation of it I would greatly appreciate it.
Asbestos gaskets are still quite common in machinery and when you go to a site you may have to disturb a gasket on some equipment, but its impossible ot tell beforehand if its an asbestos gasket or not, just because its not on the buildings asbestos survey doesn't mean its not there. This gives a problem because the guidance is pretty much to assume that everything is asbestos unless you know for sure otherwise
How the hell is this even a workable situation? under the letter of the regs/guidance I have been able to find if anybody has to work on pipes and sees a gasket they must assume it may contain asbestos, stop work, and advise the owner/council/whatever to have it tested by a licensed asbestos contractor. If we all did this we would be out of business in a snap and no work would ever be done anywhere. The has to be something else to this...
Help please.
Bit of thread revival as I read it through and the misinformation annoyed me.
OK, 1st off - there are responsibilities for all parties concerned, both under CAR 2012 and the HSWA 1974.
In your example - unless you have a laboratory test certificate to say it is non asbestos, you cant touch it. If it is a material they uncover during the works then yes they have to stop work as far as is reasonably practicable (IE if doing so is less of a risk than the asbestos is). The way around it is to have them trained to a standard where they can remove/replace such gaskets themselves
If you suspect that machinery you or your staff are due to be working on contains asbestos gaskets and you send them to work on the machinery anyway - you are liable not only for potentially exposing your own staff, but also the exposure of any other individual in the vicinity at the time of the disturbance. You will also be liable for allowing a 3rd party (IE your client) to breach the regs and therefore HSWA 1974. It is not uncommon for the contractor, client and other associated parties to ALL be prosecuted in major incidents but to be fair thats very unlikely to happen over gaskets. Of course, in your instance adequate training and provision of equipment would go a long way to solving your problem.
You are likely to come accross two kinds:
Bonded gasket (CAF is similar)
Rope gasket/seal
Now, under CAR 2012 you can actually remove those items yourself IF you and/or your staff have the correct training AND the work is sporadic/short duration and you can prove that the work will not exceed the control limit.
You also need to be able to reasonably demonstrate that the product will remain mostly in tact during and following removal. With level 2 training, and the correct equipment (H Vacs, FFP3 masks, Cat3 type 5/6 coveralls - with hood, Hand sprayer, steel toe cap wellingtons etc.) you can safely and responsibly remove these materials.
One of our clients is a major power producer in the UK and they train most of their engineers to this standard so that they can undertake essential works to pipes/flanges/equipment without having the hassle of stopping work and arranging sampling and a licensed contractor if the sample comes back as asbestos (by the way, a licensed contractor is not technically needed as long as you can demonstrate you are adhering to CAR 2012). However if lagging is involved in any way - that is a different kettle of fish entirely and you should never disturb lagging when you do not have test results for it.
However, since CAWR 2002, the 'duty to manage' asbestos has become a huge element in how we work with and around asbestos. Firstly your client should have had an asbestos survey done. If they havent, I would walk away until they have
Normally asbestos within live plant/equipment will either be presumed, or they will mark the equipment as 'no access' and most surveying companies worth their salt will have a statement in their report that reads "any area marked as no access must be deemed to contain asbestos until proven otherwise".
If your client has had a survey done that excludes access into live equipment via way of 'no access' caveats and you go into that equipment and disturb asbestos you are liable under section 2, 3 and 4 of HSWA 1974. But your actions will have also caused your client to be in breach because by causing exposure you have caused them to break their responsibilities to you as you are technically their employee whilst you are working for them. Section 7 of HSWA also applies, along with some others - but basically they could throw the book at you. Again that is very unlikely over gaskets to be perfectly honest, but please be wary of simply thinking it is down to the site owner to take responsibility for asbestos. It is the responsibility of ALL parties involved.
Also please note that if you wanted to undertake removal work yourself, you may well require a hazardous materials carriers license for transporting the waste to a licencsed asbestos waste transfer station. Either that or you arrange for collection of the waste by a suitably licensed company. I am not too sure on the EA regs with waste to be fair as it is not my area.
Some useful links:
Info on non-licensed works
Removal procedures (part of level 2 training - note this is completely different from 'awareness training')
A0 - Asbestos Essentials for managers and sole traders
EM1 - what to do if you uncover/disturb asbestos
For the purposes of this topic I feel I need to point out that you should really speak to a specialist for advice, or talk to the HSE directly. I say that because there have been a few inaccurate things posted in this topic so far.
Some of them:
Although the sort of survey that would generate a register of this type would not be destructive and may not turn up all Asbestos containing materials, it would be likely to include some assumptions that certain gaskets are ACM's and you should be forewarned of this before you start work.
Yes you should be forewarned, but the HSE will not just simply blame your client if things go bad. As a company you need to also be pro-actively asking for this information and making sure you have it as a matter of course and not simply relying on clients to provide it. Ignorance is not a defence. If you did breach the regs and it was shown you were negligent in obtaining this information, you could be prosectuted along with your client (I have seen it happen). It is a a slightly moot point with gaskets, but if you do other works where more serious forms of asbestos could be present and you disturb them through individual or collective negligence, the likelyhood is you will be prosecuted into non existence.
Non Licensed notifiable work. As above but requires the HSE to be notified (takes 14 days)
No, NNLW has no minimum notification period. 14 day notification is for licensed works only. As long as the HSE have been notified of NNLW work before it commences, it is above board.
The choice is basically don't follow the regs and risk a lawsuit, or follow the regs and go out of business as nobody will ever hire you when word gets around that's how you work
Not true. You just get around the regs by using in house training and using specialist in house staff or teaming up with people who have the skills you need in order to get the job done on the right side of the law.
I have signed off many jobs where I have given the contractor instructions to let me know if anything is found and work is to stop becuase like I said above it is the engineers at the rock face that matter
Technically if you are permitting work in an area of 'unknown' asbestos prescence and in the absence of a demolition/refurbishment survey you better have a damned good reason for doing so. Whilst this is not generally acceptable practice, if you can demonstrate via risk assessment that there is a slim likelyhood of asbestos exposure you might get away with it - but it is a mighty big axe hanging over your neck if you get it wrong. If the HSE turn up and see what is going on, and you cant provide what
they feel is suitable justification for your actions, well, I wouldnt want to be you
This isn't even limited to older sites, the installation could have been put in last year and under the regs I have seen they are still supposed to assume its asbestos unless they know for certain it isn't as the installation company could have used old gaskets they had in stock to try and save cash or gaskets imported from a country that still uses asbestos (most still do).
I would be interested to see your source for this. Importation or use of asbestos materials (in any form) is illegal (the MOD have an exemption though). However, you can use the realms of reasonably practicable here. If the installation was only installed last year - you risk assess based on that and the fact importation and use of asbestos has been banned since 1999. Ergo - you have taken reasonable steps in your risk assessment to minimise harm to your employees and the people around them (IE conformed with HSWA). Even if one of the gaskets was asbestos you can demonstrate you made an effort to risk assess the work accurately. This is the same process used for surveying buildings. Generally everything built after circa 2001 is not surveyed for asbestos because it should not have any in it.
You are correct in what you say but you also have to understand that asbestos use has been banned in the construction industry since the mid 80`s
The 1985 Asbestos Prohibition Regs only banned blue and brown asbestos import and use. White asbestos along with any of the other 3 amphibole asbestos types was freely used until 1992 (the other 3 being fibrous actinolite, anthophylite and tremolite).
Sorry to appear a smart arse, but the installation of certain types of heat retardant and hot water gaskets (particularly those used in ad-hoc repair works) were not completely outlawed until 2005
I have never heard of this before - I would be very interested to see your source for this information.
the flash pads in older LV switchgear are usually asbestos board-type material, which is actually pretty dodgy, up to 80% crocidolite and in a form that easily releases fibres to the air.
Flash pads are usually woven chrysotile (up to 85%) and definitely not board. I have never known a flash pad come back with crocidolite in it either. I have seen crocidolite board materials used in heavy duty switch gear in the form of arc chutes, but thats like 11-24kv switchgear, not the the kind of thing your average electrician is going to play with in domestic or light commercial switchgear.
So its now illegal for anybody to do any work on the equipment (i.e service a boiler). Nice work HSE, nice work >.>
NB: Why are the fire brigade not prosecuted for breaking down doors without first having them tested for asbestos as per the regulations? (I know that's stupid, that's the point).
Not true - you just step around the regs by using your head. Have a suitably asbestos trained individual present at the same time you send your heating engineer. Teamwork!
Reference the fire service - you will find they have exemptions for the sake of emergencies
The same as they appeared to have in a job I know about where they pumped x thousand litres of amosite contaminated water to a storm drain. RIDDOR anyone? Aparantly not!
Buff
I am interested if possible to understand if his compensation was from his previous employer or that employers insurance company at the time of his employment. 
.
