Ashley, Pardew or both ?

I hate when people say all u should hope for is mid table/avoid relegation.. there should be ambition in clubs otherwise its the same old boring crap. Yea newcastle at the moment are a mid table team, but we used to be a champions league team not so long back. Which is why its so hard for the fans to get used to and why they demand more. If we spend a bit in the summer on sensible players we can make a push for 5th/6th again. The fact we lost cabaye, and remy's injuries ruined us otherwise we were looking pretty good before xmas!

Ive never liked pardew, but he isnt going anywhere so i just hope they get some good players in to get excited about for once.
 
Ashley does get a lot of bad press but I wasn't aware he'd cleared £75m worth of debt either. The best Newcastle can hope for is a good cup run for some silverware and such teams should prioritise accordingly in my opinion.

Too many fans want their team to spend stupid money on transfers and wages which just end up with situations like Portsmouth and Rangers.

I can't remember the exact figures because it's been too long. But I was under the impression that he bought the club, effectively cleared near enough 100mil of debt but then found out the club had years of payments for transfers already done left to go, so the debt kept coming.

I'm fairly sure Ashley, beyond buying the club, has bailed them out with 140mil of paying off debt(as of a couple years ago) which is more or less steady(ish) now. They got to break even and should be able to increase spending and sponsorship/tv money improves.

As you say, expecting him to pee 10's of millions extra every year is daft, it leads to financial problems and only REALLY cash rich owners are doing that kind of thing. City's owner's have literally billions upon billions in cash sitting around, hundreds of billions in oil being sold, they are crazy rich and no chance of going bankrupt. Other guys might be worth a few billion but could have the majority of that being the value of their companies and very little actual cash. even if they do just having billions in cash doesn't mean he's obliged to spend heavily.

he's stabilised the club financially and now getting flack for not pouring extra money in. they'll have good years and bad years. Sometimes they'll sell a great player and take a while to replace them, other times they'll get a replacement in before a player is sold... same as every other club.

Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes, they might not, they might do. The bile spouted at the owner who saved them from massive debts and donkey's years of being completely mismanaged is pretty much a disgrace though.
 
I'll try and find the link but the club hosted a fans forum. In this they asked if they are going to to start at least trying in cups. The response was and I simplify it slightly but "club policy is we don't want to progress in cups as it could effect premier league survival" also when asked if they would invest they said "we will only spend what we make in transfers" (which is a proven lie)

So basically they have no goal to push the club on, they have no interest and are actively discouraging cup runs, they won't invest..... Sorry why should I support the club? The stupid ***** who whine about Newcastle then keep buying a season ticket want shot.

Joke club that is just a glorified billboard for sports direct, nothing will ever happen in the club now apart from stagnation, hurrah lol.

I'm considering renewing my Gateshead season ticket of 14 years ago and completely forgetting about the jokeof a club until Cashley leaves. Disgrace.
 
But we all know that will never happen.

I would, if not be onboard, at least be more satisfied with things if he showed a modicum of interest in a cup run or something to give to the fans. As it is he is clearly shafting the club to up his own business interests. Fair enough he can do what he wants as he owns the club but I'm not going to accept or like it :p
 
Cleared debts?

No, he's just transferred the debts into a £110m debt to him, which despite him already taking £11m out of the club, has yet to reduce the overall debt to club owes him.

He's also yet to pay for any advertising, of which the club is losing out on other potential businesses paying for that advertising space.
 
Indeed. The club is debt free as long as he is in charge the debt still exists.

As Ross is saying our commercial turnover is one of the lowest in the EPL (below ******* Norwich) because all our commercial advertising is a freebie for sports direct.

So yes shafted, it's a straw house he has built. It looks rosy (financially) but it is as roten financially as it is on the playing side. The one thing I will grant him is that he has controlled salaries and sorted that insanity but he hasn't done much else.
 
he seems to have had an idea of running the club, but then very soon got bored. i think that things could turn very sour for the club this summer with pardew on the edge of the cliff and rumours of 7 or so players going... especially ben arfa who is undoubtably their best player, being frozen out the squad after a falling out. shows bad management from somewhere in the club
 
Cleared debts?

No, he's just transferred the debts into a £110m debt to him, which despite him already taking £11m out of the club, has yet to reduce the overall debt to club owes him.

He's also yet to pay for any advertising, of which the club is losing out on other potential businesses paying for that advertising space.

When a club owes 140million to you know, a bank, with a due date and charges you 6.5mil of interest a year(the interest when he took over) then you eventually default and then.... you know, lose the club.

He "transferred" the debt in so much as he paid 140mil to the people you owed money to so the club no longer owed that money and the risk of outside entities being able to shut down Newcastle disappeared.

This is where I get irked with fans, he HAD paid well over 100mil now(I'm under the impression it's 140mil at least) to creditors and it's incredibly normal(bolton, blackburn, Chelsea, City, multiple others) to have this debt as equity. Firstly it means if the club gets sold then the owner can potentially get that money back, second, it means almost certainly some tax breaks and various ways it helps. Charge the club say 5mil interest, then if you make a 5mil profit, charge the interest, be break even and pay no tax on the profit.

On the off chance that some rich arab oil tycoon comes in and buys the club, with a face value of call it £150mil, if he wipes out that debt, then when he sells the buyers will say it's worth £150mil, he's say "but I gave them 100mil can't I have that back" and they'll laugh in his face. Having that debt recorded on the books means if he does sell to someone rich, then after buying the club for £150mil the new owners WOULD owe him the 100mil back. Is it that terrible that it would happen, considering, you know, he actually did put that money in. Owing money to your owner in this way is normal, is entirely fair and is no risk. The same debt owed to a bank or other clubs can result in all kinds of sanctions or the club being shut down.

To write off the amount of money he's put in just because it's still on the books is simply delusional.

Taking 11mil out of the club, vs putting 140mil in, and the fans get upset... ridiculous. At this point you'd need to see him taking 140+million out of the club before getting upset about an owner taking money away. As in, it's literally rubbish before then.

Commercial turn over, lol, commercial income is CRAP at clubs outside of europe anyway. Norwich's 11/12 records show they got 6.7mil in sponsorship, the rest of the 15mil came from catering income and from concerts and other events held at the stadium. It's about 11mil for catering + sponsorship, Newcastle's was about 14mil the same year and went up 25% to 17.x mil for last year, with roughly the same expected growth this year.


Every time I see the "we were in the champs league not that long ago, we have no ambition" I want to slap people. You got in the champs league by spending beyond your means, you got into serious financial trouble and the dropping down the table and relegation was largely a result of that. A man saved your club from being shut down, you now complain because that man won't spend the same reckless way again which resulted in all the troubles you've been in lately.
 
Still wish Cashley would go to Arsenal, DM would be in heaven and stop spouting garbage like that all the time.

Anyhoo 6% down on season ticket renewals for next season. Not a huge amount (around 3k) so the sheep who attend have zero right to boo it complain as it's them keeping him interested. Still cost his around £1.5-1.6mill which is nice.
 
I don't think anyone is complaining that he's not spending recklessly, it's that he's not spending at all - two windows without a single permanent signing ffs!

As to the debt, he's stated (or his cronies have) that we should be grateful that he's baled us out, but he's benefiting massively through free advertising for Sports Direct, how much would he have had to pay for the free advertising he's had over the last few years, including stadium naming rights, SD plastered over the roof, billboards everywhere etc? I think SD shares have quadrupled in value in the time he's owned us so we're serving a purpose and that purpose is not to compete as a sports team, it's as a banner for his real business interests. Success is irrelevant to this and there's little financial reward for a cup run vs existing as a mid table nothing club.

Nobody expects Newcastle to win anything, but to admit that we aren't even going to bother to try is a step too far.
 
Also DM I know it's a well established FS fact that you talk guff and ignore things to suit your arguement but no one wants or expects champions league or top 4, no one wants or expects to spend 100mill a year. All we want is a bit of effort, a bit of desire and something back like a cup run to make it worthwhile.

The club have specifically stated they have no intent to achieve anything going forward and you wonder why people are annoyed? Lol.
 
Both.

Ashley - Zero ambition for the club to achieve anything other than 17th every season. Has no desire to win any cup competition in case we suffer in the league and are relegated like Birmingham and Wigan.

Pardew - Idiot. Pushing the linesman. Head butting Meyler. Clueless comments, “fans aren't dedicated” etc. LB for LB being his most favoured substitution regardless of whether we're winning or losing. Playing players out of position. The fact we very rarely come from behind to even get a point (haven't got the stats to hand but it's a dreadful record).Terrible treatment of players like Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa and Haidara. I also can't help but think a better coach would get more out of the players available. At one point this season our starting XI contained at least 9 internationals. When we bought him Yanga-Mbiwa was captain of the French champions and a fixture in the National Squad, recently he’s been stuck at RB where, through no fault of his own imo, he looks useless.

I could go on and on. A lot of the blame has to sit with Ashley - lack of investment, ambition etc but Pardew isn't without fault either.

Just in case anyone thinks otherwise as well, no I don't expect to win the league or even challenge for the Champions League, right now I just want to feel a bit of pride in my team again. To watch a side that battles, tries to play decent football and have a go at a cup run. That isn't unrealistic. Leicester, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Swansea have all won a cup in my lifetime. One even reached a European final.
 
I dunno, the fans may have completely ruined the marketability of the stadium naming rights back spacking out so much when Sports Direct started being used. Would a big sponsor risk buying the stadium naming rights now, given they have to consider that the fans could similarly spack out if they bought them? Or, if they were willing to buy them, would the price be lower than if the fans hadn't spacked? Arguably...

Stadium naming rights are gone now, Wonga bought them and decided to change the name back to SJP. The point I'm arguing here is that we are now a sports club where attempting to win is no longer on our agenda. Shameful.
 
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I don't think anyone is complaining that he's not spending recklessly, it's that he's not spending at all - two windows without a single permanent signing ffs!

As to the debt, he's stated (or his cronies have) that we should be grateful that he's baled us out, but he's benefiting massively through free advertising for Sports Direct, how much would he have had to pay for the free advertising he's had over the last few years, including stadium naming rights, SD plastered over the roof, billboards everywhere etc? I think SD shares have quadrupled in value in the time he's owned us so we're serving a purpose and that purpose is not to compete as a sports team, it's as a banner for his real business interests. Success is irrelevant to this and there's little financial reward for a cup run vs existing as a mid table nothing club.

Nobody expects Newcastle to win anything, but to admit that we aren't even going to bother to try is a step too far.

What if they state the intention to try and seal top 6, then fans will complain when they don't achieve that. It's a no win situation where the fans won't be happy regardless of the situation. Fact is unless you have a billionaire owner who is happy to pee away hundreds of millions of pounds, then the answer you will receive is the pretty much the same everywhere. The ONLY possible way for them to aim for top four would be spending close to what Arsenal/Spurs or Liverpool spent, which is out of their reach.

AS for free advertising, seriously, look at the commercial income of clubs from bottom up to even Arsenal. It's tiny, people are MASSIVELY over estimating what a few advertising boards are worth, and if you think the revenue of Sports Direct went up 400% because of some advertising boards at the stadium... lol.

Norwich, Villa, Fulham, etc. You're looking at 10-15mil commercial income. That is shirts, sponsorship and match day income(that isn't tickets, hot dogs/drinks basically). Spurs is a jump up to around 35mil, Arsenal have been pathetic in recent years due to woeful woeful shirt sponsorship deals, should finally increase this year or next, not sure when the deals kick in.

Newcastle brought in almost 14mil two seasons ago and 17.5ish last year, and they expect it to be up again. You can't get big commercial income without being in europe every year(or most years) and you can't get really big commercial income(£60mil +) without generally speaking being in the top four, or having been in the league and in/around the top four long enough to have a fan base world wide that can maintain that. Liverpool have a bigger commercial income than Arsenal and have had for basically all of the past decade, that might change with the new deals.

Any "free" advertising Ashley is getting, considering you have 17mil commercial income which puts you ahead of, Everton, is miniscule. A couple mil at best.

The biggest commercial income deals are shirt sponsor and kit sponsor. Both main sponsorship deals are with Wonga/Puma, have been recently increased and the club has worked to get new sponsors for other things.

Where is this missing massive chunk of advertising, that no other clubs (outside of top four) get, when Newcastle are improving faster and better than everyone not consistently in Europe?

How many clubs in the league have stadium naming deals, how much do you think it's worth. Arsenal got 100mil stadium AND shirt sponsorship for a DECADE. That is a basically disgraceful deal. Even at best and being super generous that isa 8mil shirt 2mil stadium, for Arsenal, in London, at a club that gets 100 times more coverage worldwide. Stadium sponsorship is worth almost nothing to a club like Newcastle currently, banners around the stadium mean very very little in terms of yearly income. Shirt/kit sponsorship is like 70-90% of commercial income for most teams, the rest is worth exceptional little.
 
Giant post and mostly irrelevant, what's bothering most is what his plans are for the future, and the fact is Ashley is not interested in making NUFC successful on the pitch, and considers a perennial 10th position with no attempt to win a cup or qualify for europe to be the pinnacle. Is that OK do you think?
 
Did you ever think that commercial growing by 25% a year, making a profit on some players, enables you to build a stronger squad long term naturally.

Again I ask, should they say "we're going to try and win the league next year", what bout in 5 years, or 10, what happens when you fail. 98% of teams in England don't win the league and most don't win the cup every year. What answer would make you happy, and for how long, and what would you do if they failed?

You can't just become super competitive in the epl just because you got promoted. It will take years to become stabilised and improve a little year on year. Injuries, europa, other teams being lucky, that means bouncing up and down the table one year to the next. Look at Spurs and the progression they've made, these things take time. The fans don't understand it takes time, there is NO answer they can give that the fans won't hate.

As for mostly irrelevant post, i responded to a post in which you were saying he's getting loads of free advertising, one of the many silly myths, like he's taking millions out of the club, clearly isn't reinvesting transfer money, isn't buying players.

"we didn't buy a single permanent player in two transfer windows"...... yeah, but you bought what 5 in the january before that, and brought in one loan player that had a huge impact this year. They made offers in January for Cabaye replacements and didn't have time, again, that is life. By all accounts QPR weren't actually willing to sell Remy, they wanted a year with a chance to sign because they hoped to be back in the prem and wanted a good striker if they made it.

What's hilarious is, if Newcastle had never had the good season under Pardew, most of the fans wouldn't be complaining half as much. Because yes, though you guys seem to deny it constantly, every other post is about ambition of getting back to competing for the top 4 and people who specifically state "we were in the champs league not long ago....blah blah blah".

Newcastle don't have the finances to push for top 6 consistently right now, they might in a few years, welcome to being in the same situation as most clubs in the world.
 
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