Ashya King

Jolteh · 2 Sep 2014 at 19:53

Not completely read through the thread, but definitely feel that the state were a bit heavy handed in this instance.

In a situation that starts with parents trying to do the best by their child and ending in them being in jail in another country with talk of them being extradited back here for prosecution I think we should all be a bit worried.

Angilion · 3 Sep 2014 at 02:20

Jolteh said:
Not completely read through the thread, but definitely feel that the state were a bit heavy handed in this instance.

In a situation that starts with parents trying to do the best by their child and ending in them being in jail in another country with talk of them being extradited back here for prosecution I think we should all be a bit worried.

A child needing constantly functioning medical equipment that was powered by a battery with a relatively short duration and who was at very high risk of infection causing rapid death was removed from a hospital. Nobody knew where to.

So no, the state wasn't even a bit heavy-handed to treat it as an emergency with a child's life at risk. Since it was likely that the child had been taken into the EU, it was right to inform police in other EU countries and make it official.

The child was found in a flat. Not another hospital.

So the response wasn't heavy-handed over there either. The response got the child into a hospital. Where they are at a far lower risk of dying from infection or any other complications.

The states (both of them) involved were right to treat it as an emergency situation and not simply assume that everything was OK. The fact that the situation turned out to be much less bad than it could be because the parents had taken what steps they could after taking the child out of hospital wasn't something that either state should have assumed to be the case and it is still true that they endangered their child by removing him from medical care. Had they transferred him to another hospital it would have been a different matter (though that should be done in an ambulance with proper kit and properly trained people), but they transferred him to a flat.

I think the states weren't at all heavy-handed. I also think that the states would have been severely criticised if they hadn't acted as quickly and decisively, especially if the child died because they weren't getting any medical treatment. The media would have been braying about failing to protect children and some people would be claiming it was racism.

Xordium · 6 Sep 2014 at 09:53

Well Southampton have finally spoken out on this matter: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/05/ashya-king-prague-proton-beam-therapy-court-ruling

Just seems to confirm what was the prevailing mood on here all along. The hospital and the police were correct to raise the alert and the parents were very irresponsible.

The shame of course now is because of the handling of this case and the parents inability to actually do the best thing for their kid then the poor kid chance of a successful recovery are diminishing by the day.

Minstadave · 6 Sep 2014 at 09:59

Clears it up nicely. Family are forcing an inappropriate therapy to be carried out reducing survival chance. Everyone's a winner......

Glaucus · 6 Sep 2014 at 10:00

Not only clears it up, on top of that they didn't not have money for treatment, they did not have treatment booked up. They hadn't even done anything. the dad himself said there's three possible countries he could go to.
These cases make me mad, children need more rights from idiot parents.

Xordium · 6 Sep 2014 at 10:00

And if anything happens no doubt they will blame Southampton.

@Glaucus unless they did this knowing the media campaign would ensure they got the finance.

Oh and well done Clegg and Cameron /golfclap.

wndsr · 6 Sep 2014 at 10:20

I think these parents are bloody stupid to be honest. Remove child from hospital as the NHS will not fund the treatment they claim she so desperately needs. Take child to random hotel in Spanish beach resort where there's even less chance of the treatment being had.

Can't understand why they would do that. Idiots.

Xordium · 6 Sep 2014 at 10:24

wndsr said:
Can't understand why they would do that.

Guess you've never had a child who is critically ill. I've been on both sides of the fence here. Seeing your own kids hooked up to machines is a soul destroying experience - you can't possible contemplate the fear that goes through your mind and the awfulness of the realisation that no matter what you do matters are beyond your control. It isn't even the child you know - tubes up their nose, their faces all swollen, they are exposed and often in pain and you feel that vulnerability.

TBH I am more shocked these sorts of things don't happen to this scale more frequently.

wndsr · 6 Sep 2014 at 10:29

Xordium said:
Guess you've never had a child who is critically ill. I've been on both sides of the fence here. Seeing your own kids hooked up to machines is a soul destroying experience - you can't possible contemplate the fear that goes through your mind and the awfulness of the realisation that no matter what you do matters are beyond your control. It isn't even the child you know - tubes up their nose, their faces all swollen, they are exposed and often in pain and you feel that vulnerability.

TBH I am more shocked these sorts of things don't happen to this scale more frequently.

I haven't experienced that, no. I understand it must be an utterly desperate situation but I just don't think for a second that any part of me, no matter how desperate will ever think it's a good idea to move the child from those machines and tubes keeping them alive.

Xordium · 6 Sep 2014 at 10:40

And I suspect most people wouldn't, and the statistics show this to be true, but if there was anything that could snap someone's mind then this is it.

Glaucus · 6 Sep 2014 at 11:00

Xordium said:
And if anything happens no doubt they will blame Southampton.

@Glaucus unless they did this knowing the media campaign would ensure they got the finance.

Oh and well done Clegg and Cameron /golfclap.

Maybe the case, but they hadn't even decided on a country, let alone agreeing with a hospital in principal. Which means that no hospital received any medical info to advise them. It's just complete rubbish and they should be in court being prosecuted.

FoxEye · 6 Sep 2014 at 14:01

Xordium said:
Oh and well done Clegg and Cameron /golfclap.

You really don't like the decision, do you

If it was really inappropriate treatment, wouldn't the Prague treatment center refuse to carry it out? If the kid gets sick while in their care it won't make them look very good, will it. So it's not in their interests to provide any treatment that could make the kid worse...?

Glaucus · 6 Sep 2014 at 14:03

FoxEye said:
You really don't like the decision, do you

If it was really inappropriate treatment, wouldn't the Prague treatment center refuse to carry it out? If the kid gets sick while in their care it won't make them look very good, will it. So it's not in their interests to provide any treatment that could make the kid worse...?

Money, private hospital at a chance. Not every country is as well regulated as uk.

Xordium · 6 Sep 2014 at 16:17

FoxEye said:
You really don't like the decision, do you

If you mean the decision by Clegg and Cameron to appeal to the popular outrage and hysteria without actually examining what was going on or waiting a suitable amount of time to establish the facts then yes I really don't like their decision.

My personal opinion is that Cameron would like to see the NHS ripped up for personal reasons and in particular one set of services.