Asking for a pay rise

[BYTEr]

Hi all,

Been at my current workplace for a few years now first joining as an operations & facilities coordinator, after 6 months I was promoted to a newly created role as a project specialist, this came with a 30% pay rise.

I was in this role for 12 months when I was suddenly moved to technical support with a few days’ notice, this is the top technical team with the most experienced guys and recognised as knowledge experts for all our technologies, systems and internal processes so I was quite apprehensive having not really been exposed to any of it.

There was no mention of a pay rise when I was moved to this role, despite it very much being a promotion, I’m expected to have far greater knowledge and be able to support numerous apps, processes, critical internal systems and databases etc in order to support, fix and implement requested changes or fashion preventatives.

I’ve been in the role for 12 months now, and it’s been extremely challenging, I’ve wanted to quit several times and been under a lot of stress as I’ve barely had any training, despite this, I am now feeling like I’m starting to be a productive member of the team rather than a burden and can now work independently.

I now want to ask for a pay rise, as like I have mentioned, from my previous role the expectations and responsibilities placed on me is far greater. I also am unable to finish on time most days as we provide support to other teams who finish later than us, we are also the busiest towards the end of the day and a lot of the time, things have to be fixed same day. There have been times where I've been required to stay until 19:30 when I'm contracted to finish at 17:00, most days I finish around 17:30-17:45.

But I’m reluctant to do so, firstly because I do not think, even on my current salary I’d find it easy to find another role paying the same, partly because I do not think my CV does me justice, I’m essentially at an intermediate level for Excel (including VBA & PQ) and SQL (as well as Access) as well as having a decent understanding of PS/VBS scripting, setting up servers etc which just doesn’t sound that great, or enough to demand my current salary but I have a lot of other good attributes that I find hard to put across on a CV like being very analytical, able to come up with ideas for improvements, being able to liaise with various parties to delivery a project etc, I believe it was these sorts of things which got me my current role.

I’m also reluctant to ask for a pay rise just because of the awkwardness of it, the business does treat me well for the most part, for example they gave me full pay for a few weeks despite having 1 or 2 days off during the week because of childcare issues due to the pandemic. They've also put their confidence in me where others haven't by promoting me twice. The business has also suffered because of the pandemic, still profitable but less so, those who get a bonus did not this year etc.

But I also think it’s unfair to essentially promote me to a role requiring far more knowledge and responsibility without a pay rise, although I’d say I have developed and learnt new things, a lot of it is business specific, what we do is unique, so not all of it is transferable, I’m also not down to get any extra certs or quals or anything like that.

Weirdly we do not have salary reviews, we do have performance reviews which have a strict agenda which doesn’t include salaries. I’ve never been told what the salary structure is, if there is one, I think it’s always been a case that everyone gets a small % increase each year. I've also no idea what other members of the team get.

In terms of a pay rise, I want to ask for £5k which would represent roughly a 15% increase which is probably still selling myself short.

Sorry for the ramble, I just want to ask, but not at the same time, do I request a meeting with my manager or email them, what do I do if they refuse? I'm thinking of maybe emailing my manager to ask what the salary structure is, if there is one? I might be able to gauge the response I might get based on the response to this maybe?

Anyone been in the same situation or have any advice I'd be greatly appreciative.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dis86]

I'd say you should look at the fact we're in a massive recession and the job market is incredibly volatile.

 

[Rroff]

Definitely sounds like you should be talking to your manager about the hours you are working - if the busiest hours are later in the day it is probably in the businesses interest to optimise around those hours - though that might mean you are working into the evening which is not exactly an enjoyable shift.

Pay rise in this climate I think is very much playing it by ear but there is no harm bringing it up though it can be awkward - if you put it on the table along with other considerations you are more likely to get some movement on at least something.

 

[BYTEr]

Not sure why I've posted this in Home and Garden oops.

 

[MissChief]

SO ask for a 12 month review with your manager, bring evidence of any big projects or changes you've made that have improved productivity or made the company savings or even increased their sales/income. GEt a positive review then state you want a raise because of all the things you've mentioned and brought up.

 

[Slade2]

Asking for a pay rise is always difficult. Do you honestly feel that you are underpaid for your current position? Would it be possible for the business to call your bluff and replace you with someone cheaper? What would you say if they said Ok we understand you feel undervalued but what are we going to get for paying you an extra 5k that we dont already get? You really need to write down all of your positive attributes and highlight these if asked. You are a team player, you often stay late, you moving into this position without extensive consultation on the role.

I just would not be doing anything silly at the moment as Dis86 said the job market is going to be complete madness for a while and I dont see it improving any time soon. I would not be given my currently employer any reason to think I wasn't the model employee I hope they think I am. I might be a bit cynical but if they get a stiff of you wanting more, they might decide you are first out the door.

 

[BYTEr]

Those are some very good points, thanks.

I suppose I do not feel massively underpaid, however, with very short notice and no consultation I've been moved to a role that requires much more knowledge, carries extra responsibilities and stresses, extra hours etc without a payrise. I don't feel like I'm getting a lot extra out of it to not justify a payrise, if I was learning new things that was transferrable or gaining extra qualifications then I could take that.

I'm definitely not instantly replaceable, my role carries specific business knowledge that someone who hasn't worked here before couldn't possibly possess. We also have a small team that is already stretched and supports business critical systems, they could replace me with someone from a different team with experience, but it would probably still take 6 months for them to get upto speed whilst also requiring a member of the team training them. So, I'm not instantly replaceable but neither will the business collapse without me.

it's difficult, I will definitely start making a note of improvements I've introduced etc if it comes to justifying a payrise, still not sure how to bring it up though, I'm still thinking of maybe sending a email enquiring about the salary structure as a sort of feeler.

Thanks for all the replies so far

 

[MissChief]

Those are some very good points, thanks.

I suppose I do not feel massively underpaid, however, with very short notice and no consultation I've been moved to a role that requires much more knowledge, carries extra responsibilities and stresses, extra hours etc without a payrise. I don't feel like I'm getting a lot extra out of it to not justify a payrise, if I was learning new things that was transferrable or gaining extra responsibilities then I could take that.

I'm definitely not instantly replaceable, my role carries specific business knowledge that someone who hasn't worked here before couldn't possibly possess. We also have a small team that is already stretched and supports business critical systems, they could replace me with someone from a different team with experience, but it would probably still take 6 months for them to get upto speed whilst also requiring a member of the team training them. So, I'm not instantly replaceable but neither will the business collapse without me.

it's difficult, I will definitely start making a note of improvements I've introduced etc if it comes to justifying a payrise, still not sure how to bring it up though, I'm still thinking of maybe sending a email enquiring about the salary structure as a sort of feeler.

Thanks for all the replies so far

Ask for a review with your boss. Ideally you should be having one at least monthly although many places stretch them out longer than that.

 

[mid_gen]

These situations always boil down to :

1. Are you confident you can find another job at this higher pay you think you're worth?
2. Does your current employer think you'll be able to find another job at this higher pay?
3. Is the cost and inconvenience of replacing you worth more than the payrise you're requesting?

Normally 3 is the kicker. If the answer to that is 'yes' then you can normally just ask and ye shall receive, if your employer isn't an idiot. If you can answer yes to 1 and 2 then you're in a very strong position.

FWIW I never straight up ask for a payrise, talking about money will turn people off. Focus on the role/seniority, and the money will come. This assumes you stick to the golden rule of never accepting more seniority/responsibility without getting the remuneration to go with it.

 

[randomshenans]

Also, on top of what @mid_gen says; what's your position? What's your salary and location?

If you're at the top of the market band for what you do, you will struggle to ask for more. At the same time, you have to look at point 1. of mid_gen's points, as you have 1 year experience in what you're doing. Yes you can do the job, but like you say your CV has 1yr experience in that role. So, at that level could you get 5k more at that point?

All of these points should be addressed as you need to go in there if you do with all the facts and confidence that you are worth that 5k.

 

[HACO]

Difficult time of year to ask for a payraise. Last time I was raised was back in May 2019 and it's overdue, but I know it's a tough time for the company so I haven't asked yet.

 

[BYTEr]

I am not confident of finding another job at my current pay, let alone for an extra £5k, not because I don’t think I’m worth that much but it’s difficult to show my worth until I’m in the job if that makes sense, jobs at different companies have all been the same, start near the bottom of the ladder, but then I’m able to fairly quickly demonstrate I can do much more.

As mentioned, my CV will basically show 5 years’ experience in data analysis, system support and business intelligence activities with intermediate skills in Excel, Access & T-SQL, (I do have some knowledge and experience in other things as well, but probably not enough to put on a CV like Python, Powershell and stuff but not enough to put on a CV). I sometimes have felt like putting these at advanced/expert levels because we’ve had some people join the company claiming so that barely know anything, when I’ve googled skills for the above 3, I fall into the intermediate category with some experience and knowledge in what are considered advanced areas.

It’s my other attributes that seem to go down well and get noticed, for example being relentlessly curious and analytical over current systems and processes, constantly questioning things, I email my manager several times a week with ideas for improvements, some of which have been implemented, I also have a good record for project management but don’t have any qualifications in the area, it’s these sorts of things that I struggle to put across on a CV

With the above said, it seems like I’d be looking at new jobs for £5k less than what I’m on now, my employer probably thinks that too.

The cost and inconvenience of replacing me would be many times what I’m asking for, roles that are less senior that mine seem to attract £4k-£5 agency fees alone, as the business is unique in what we do, with our own apps and processes, the learning curve is steep, at least 6 months, in which time you’re basically useless as we work with sensitive data so you can’t work on it alone until you’re ready, it’s probably 12 months before you can become a productive and independent member of the team.

With all of the above said, I should probably just be happy with what I’ve got, I just feel slightly mugged off that I’ve effectively been promoted without a pay rise and also feel like it’s a missed opportunity to ask for one if I don’t.

Thanks for the replies so far, they’ve been helpful.

 

[Worthy]

Don't overthink it. If you feel you're worth more, then ask. Don't worry about the current climate - the world is still turning and businesses are still making money. You have to be sure you're worth it though and you're not just trying it on. If you genuinely believe you've been promoted without a payrise, then say that in an articulate way, and see what they say. They aren't going to sack you for asking!

 

[m@rty]

It's a risky move asking for a pay rise in the current climate. If it goes pear shaped you will be kicking yourself.

 

[mid_gen]

I am not confident of finding another job at my current pay, let alone for an extra £5k, not because I don’t think I’m worth that much but it’s difficult to show my worth until I’m in the job if that makes sense, jobs at different companies have all been the same, start near the bottom of the ladder, but then I’m able to fairly quickly demonstrate I can do much more.

As mentioned, my CV will basically show 5 years’ experience in data analysis, system support and business intelligence activities with intermediate skills in Excel, Access & T-SQL, (I do have some knowledge and experience in other things as well, but probably not enough to put on a CV like Python, Powershell and stuff but not enough to put on a CV). I sometimes have felt like putting these at advanced/expert levels because we’ve had some people join the company claiming so that barely know anything, when I’ve googled skills for the above 3, I fall into the intermediate category with some experience and knowledge in what are considered advanced areas.

It’s my other attributes that seem to go down well and get noticed, for example being relentlessly curious and analytical over current systems and processes, constantly questioning things, I email my manager several times a week with ideas for improvements, some of which have been implemented, I also have a good record for project management but don’t have any qualifications in the area, it’s these sorts of things that I struggle to put across on a CV

With the above said, it seems like I’d be looking at new jobs for £5k less than what I’m on now, my employer probably thinks that too.

The cost and inconvenience of replacing me would be many times what I’m asking for, roles that are less senior that mine seem to attract £4k-£5 agency fees alone, as the business is unique in what we do, with our own apps and processes, the learning curve is steep, at least 6 months, in which time you’re basically useless as we work with sensitive data so you can’t work on it alone until you’re ready, it’s probably 12 months before you can become a productive and independent member of the team.

With all of the above said, I should probably just be happy with what I’ve got, I just feel slightly mugged off that I’ve effectively been promoted without a pay rise and also feel like it’s a missed opportunity to ask for one if I don’t.

Thanks for the replies so far, they’ve been helpful.

Lesson here : don't take on extra responsibilities unless either you are getting immediately paid appropriately (ideal) , or you have an agreed timetable as to when your pay will be re-evaluated to reflect the additional responsibility.

 

[randomshenans]

I personally don't think it's risky at this time. If the company is doing OK, then there is no reason why he can't... just needs to be able to back it up!

 

[omnomnom]

I am not confident of finding another job at my current pay, let alone for an extra £5k, not because I don’t think I’m worth that much but it’s difficult to show my worth until I’m in the job if that makes sense, jobs at different companies have all been the same, start near the bottom of the ladder, but then I’m able to fairly quickly demonstrate I can do much more.

As mentioned, my CV will basically show 5 years’ experience in data analysis, system support and business intelligence activities with intermediate skills in Excel, Access & T-SQL, (I do have some knowledge and experience in other things as well, but probably not enough to put on a CV like Python, Powershell and stuff but not enough to put on a CV). I sometimes have felt like putting these at advanced/expert levels because we’ve had some people join the company claiming so that barely know anything, when I’ve googled skills for the above 3, I fall into the intermediate category with some experience and knowledge in what are considered advanced areas.

It’s my other attributes that seem to go down well and get noticed, for example being relentlessly curious and analytical over current systems and processes, constantly questioning things, I email my manager several times a week with ideas for improvements, some of which have been implemented, I also have a good record for project management but don’t have any qualifications in the area, it’s these sorts of things that I struggle to put across on a CV

With the above said, it seems like I’d be looking at new jobs for £5k less than what I’m on now, my employer probably thinks that too.

The cost and inconvenience of replacing me would be many times what I’m asking for, roles that are less senior that mine seem to attract £4k-£5 agency fees alone, as the business is unique in what we do, with our own apps and processes, the learning curve is steep, at least 6 months, in which time you’re basically useless as we work with sensitive data so you can’t work on it alone until you’re ready, it’s probably 12 months before you can become a productive and independent member of the team.

With all of the above said, I should probably just be happy with what I’ve got, I just feel slightly mugged off that I’ve effectively been promoted without a pay rise and also feel like it’s a missed opportunity to ask for one if I don’t.

Thanks for the replies so far, they’ve been helpful.

You absolutely shouldnt be happy with what you've got. I did that for 5 years and was getting rinsed. You have effectively taken a pay cut for what sounds like a more demanding position. You've been there long enough where they cant just chop you so i dont see any harm in an informal chat.

I personally don't think it's risky at this time. If the company is doing OK, then there is no reason why he can't... just needs to be able to back it up!

The promotion is surely enough to back him up?

 

[Kenai]

It's a risky move asking for a pay rise in the current climate. If it goes pear shaped you will be kicking yourself.

How pear shaped could it go?

Surely worst case is they say no, they can't just sack him for asking for more money

Maybe i'm missing something obvious but im not sure really what the big risk is

 

[randomshenans]

The promotion is surely enough to back him up?

Yea, true, but at the same time I'd want to know my salary vs. market rate as well and have a bit more leverage to tip the balance in my favour.

 

[Daaaavvveee]

Just ask, worse they can say is no.