At a bit of a dilemma with next move

GuruJockStrap

GuruJockStrap

GuruJockStrap

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Bit of background.

Been working at my current employer for 3 years. Fintech company with approx. 100 employees. I'm a Business Analyst by job title but reality is my role is far more encompassing than that due to the small company nature and getting stuck in. Lots of projects and a busy pipeline of change.

My previous manager was made redundant before Christmas but then reached out to me mid January regarding a role in a contracting capacity (would be first contracting job for me). It would be a step up in company size for for (approx. 5000 employees). Role would be for a 6 month contract to begin, with a view to extending another 6 months and then permanent. It comes with a significant increase in pay for me; breaching the six figure salary. The projects I'd be working on sound great, are longer term strategic initiatives and will be something new for me to get stuck into. Pretty much a done deal for me as there was no way I felt current employer could financially match what's on the table.

I duly handed my notice this week and within 24 hours, had a chat with my current manager. She didn't want me to leave and has offered a significant pay increase to what I'm currently on. The standard pay would be 5 figures but with a 20% annual bonus. That bonus would push it over 6 figures but fall short of the contracting role by £8k (although my managers offer was a starting point, so room there to move).

I have my own list of pro's and con's to staying where I am or moving on but wondering if anyone here has faced a similar dilemma and what did they eventually decided to do. Any regrets?
 
General rule of thumb is never take the counter offer. You're a marked man for being disloyal and first out of the door when things turn down. Bigger company is likely more opportunity and stability, but also more bureaucracy. As a contractor you'd be less exposed to that though, so you get to try them out before going permanent. Starting as a contractor does seem a little bit of a red flag to me if they're larger. Does the person hiring you really have the budget and clout for that to be a permanent role down the line. Pros and cons aside, do you have savings to cover being between contracts. I'd say 6 months of bills as a minimum and would prefer to be around 12.
 
peterwalkley said:
General rule of thumb is never take the counter offer. You're a marked man for being disloyal and first out of the door when things turn down.
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Although that may sometimes be the case, it's usually a load of crap spouted by recruiters who have a vested interest IMO. In many cases managers are more than happy to get you a good increase via counter offer if you give them the ammo to use with HR/break normal policy. I've known many people who accepted counter offers and it was never held against them.

@GuruJockStrap I've accepted a counter offer in the past and continued with the same company for 8 years subsequently with several promotions in that time. It was definitely the right decision for me, but I was happy in the job and only frustrated that my pay hadn't risen enough as my expertise increased. Sounds like it's a bit different in your case - you said the projects you'd potentially be working on sound great.

I'd just go with which job you prefer taking into account oppotunities to progress and not worry too much about the monetary gap if any - it seems like it's quite small and personally I'd much rather earn a little less as a perm employee than contract and all that comes with that.
 
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Thanks for the advice.:)

I've asked for my Manager to provide me the details of the offer in writing by tomorrow so I can mull things over the weekend and provide an answer on Monday.
 
The difference in salary seems irrelevant. Leaving for the contracting job is higher risk. I agree with @EvilRob that counter-offers can work out fine.

Are you excited by the new job? Do you want to grow into new challenges, or are you happier being in the comfortable position of your existing work? These seem to me to be the questions to ask yourself rather than looking at small differences in salary.
 
It does sound like the new role interests you more, but I personally wouldn't go contract over perm unless the role and/or pay was significantly better.

Going contract you have to factor in loss of pension contributions, sick pay, redundancy pay and all that jazz.
 
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I don't think £8k (at that level of income even more so) would be anywhere near enough to get me to switch from perm to contractor. Think about the other benefits - annual leave, pension, sick pay etc and you'll be losing money with the new job. Unless you'll get normal employee benefits? Would be rare but not unheard of.

I think I'd be wanting around twice my base salary over ~230 working days a year.
 
Mr Jack said:
Are you excited by the new job? Do you want to grow into new challenges, or are you happier being in the comfortable position of your existing work? These seem to me to be the questions to ask yourself rather than looking at small differences in salary.
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I'm more than happy where I am to be honest. I'm not in that "mailing it in" zone. There's lots of projects and initiatives always ongoing and each one is exposing me to new tech, skills and knowledge.

Couldn't say that about my previous employer in the final 2.5 years before my redundancy.
 
NotAGolf said:
It does sound like the new role interests you more, but I personally wouldn't go contract over perm unless the role and/or pay was significantly better.

Going contract you have to factor in loss of pension contributions, sick pay, redundancy pay and all that jazz.
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RobHu said:
I don't think £8k (at that level of income even more so) would be anywhere near enough to get me to switch from perm to contractor. Think about the other benefits - annual leave, pension, sick pay etc and you'll be losing money with the new job. Unless you'll get normal employee benefits? Would be rare but not unheard of.
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Before the counter offer from my current employer, I would have been looking at a doubling of my income over a 12 month period (assuming contract was extended beyond the initial 6 months). So it was a bit of a non brainer for me.

With the offer on the table now, it doesn't seem appealing given the additional risk that comes with it.
 
Yeah, a perm role with a big boost in pay seems like a no-brainer, a contract offer ought to pay significantly more than a perm role which it no longer does.

It's not like you can typically use a contract position to leverage a higher perm offer in future either as it's generally acknowledged that contract roles pay more... however in the event you felt comfortable sharing your comp with a recruiter (if you are at the higher end of a possible range for a future job offer) then the perm role can be more easily used to negotiate a new higher offer elsewhere too.
 
RobHu said:
I don't think £8k (at that level of income even more so) would be anywhere near enough to get me to switch from perm to contractor. Think about the other benefits - annual leave, pension, sick pay etc and you'll be losing money with the new job. Unless you'll get normal employee benefits? Would be rare but not unheard of.

I think I'd be wanting around twice my base salary over ~230 working days a year.
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Agreed £8k is an ultra-low increment for contractor vs perm. When I went contracting it was about £50k more than my salary+bonus.
Unless you dislike your current employer or feel the new place has a lot of intangible benefits, I'd take the counter-offer.

Beware the whole "oh initial six months but then extend another 6 months, and then perm lined up innit". If they want to make you a perm and envisage you in that role why not offer you a perm role now? [hint: because they are constrained - it doesn't matter how much they want you, ultimately it may not be their decision]. Also if you are getting only £8k extra as a contractor compared to current employer, their perm offer will likely be a pay cut compared to staying put.
 
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EvilRob said:
Although that may sometimes be the case, it's usually a load of crap spouted by recruiters who have a vested interest IMO. In many cases managers are more than happy to get you a good increase via counter offer if you give them the ammo to use with HR/break normal policy. I've known many people who accepted counter offers and it was never held against them.

@GuruJockStrap I've accepted a counter offer in the past and continued with the same company for 8 years subsequently with several promotions in that time. It was definitely the right decision for me
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I've never accepted a counter-offer but I completely agree, the amount of total tripe spouted around it (usually on LinkedIn) is incredible. "90% of people who accept a counter-offer leave within 6 months!!!!!11!oneone". Yeah, and 152% of statistics are not made up.

"It just papers over the cracks - ask yourself why you wanted to leave in the first place?"
-Because someone offered me more money. Now the current employer is offering me more money, Problem solved.

"Ah, but ask yourself, do you want to work somewhere that only offers you more money when you say you are leaving?"
-That's the reality of most employers. You get a job on X salary and then you get mediocre increments. You get promoted, leave, or take a counter-offer. All three options give you a better salary and hence all are eligible options.

edit: Oh I forgot to say, even if most people do genuinely leave within six months of accepting a counter-offer, is that necessarily a bad thing for that person? All that means is they found a new job that paid better than their inflated counter-offer salary, instead of a job that paid better than their initial mediocre salary. Chances are, they probably ended up on more money at the new employer having accepted the counter offer than had they taken the first move that came up.
 
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Yeah, I do wonder how recent some of the stats people cite are. There are risks associated with it but the notion of being a company man and staying years and years in the same job is pretty dead these days so entertaining other offers shouldn't necessarily be seen as disloyal. Someone who is very good at their job ought to get offers to try and poach them as a matter of course as word gets round from clients or former colleagues.

There is always the risk that someone above you in the org chart gets emotive about it or thinks it reflects badly on them but in some other companies it's not uncommon for people to leave and later come back, at one firm I worked in one old guy had previously left twice and come back.

In that same firm one guy, who they knew was both good and underpaid, had two counter offers in the same year (unknown to them he was sneaky and made up the second one), if you've got someone who is underpaid but HR limits pay typical rises to 15% (and these sorts of internal rules are almost never communicated to most employees either) then that person getting an offer gives their manager a reason to go to an MD and get an exemption.

Obvs there are ways of going about it to try and mitigate the risk too, especially if it's purely about money and you otherwise enjoy working there, get on well with the people you work with etc. putting it across as a threat is obvs a counterproductive way of doing it (especially if you've just had a big blow up with your boss about annual pay/bonus etc.*). Make sure it's emphasised that you still enjoy working there but XYZ ltd has also approached you a few times now and is offering considerably more than you make currently so you feel your comp is perhaps a bit under market and could they make an adjustment pls etc.

*I guess in the right environment this can work too, my friend worked for a big US bank and was notorious for having a blow-up about his bonus that was so bad the receptionists/admin people down the corridor from the conference room could hear him screaming and shouting and were worried if they should go and get someone. The following year his MD avoided any additional aggro and made sure he was taken care of. Obvs that sort of thing needs to be justified somewhat too, this guy had been working ridiculous hours and was legitimately valuable to them ergo the MD wasn't going to get rid of him for screaming and shouting after feeling screwed.
 
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I don't even particularly agree with the "your card is marked" argument around getting marginalised if you "show disloyalty" by discussing alternative employment prior to accepting a counter-offer. If I had an employee in that situation I'd assume they were someone that knows their worth and hence is someone we'd need to provide the right progression for moving forwards if we wanted to keep them. I don't see them being in a worse position than someone who just ticks along and has never suggested they want to leave, it just means it's clearer to management what they need to do in terms of retention for them.

In other words, I think a good worker (presumably they can't be terrible or they wouldn't have been made an acceptable counter-offer) whom you know has the capability and motivation to find a job somewhere else is just as likely to be rewarded moving forwards as a lifer just coasting along. Ultimately the package someone receives is a combination of "how much do I need to pay to keep this person?" and "how much value does this person add?", and that first number is arguably higher if you have seen evidence of them achieving offers elsewhere.
 
That's the key thing, they're quite likely good in the first place if they're even being made a counteroffer. Granted there is the possibility of another scenario, in a badly organised company they might well be average but essential (for the moment) as if they leave it maybe leaves a skills gap but even in that case it can totally be worthwhile for the individual to take the counter offer (albeit while being prepared to jump ship anyway within a year.) The company in that scenario would perhaps look to fill the skills gap/create some redundancy in the role after the initial need is highlighted by the possibility of losing that person.

In the event that a candidate does disclose current comp to potential employers* a counteroffer can boost that and give a pay rise that might only have otherwise been available via jumping ship albeit without marking your CV with a recent move, your next offer external offer then becomes more like the one you might otherwise have had to wait 2 years to receive! Essentially you got to skip to Go on the monopoly board and collect your £200 without penalty.

*Obvs not everyone does this nor is it necessarily wise to do so but simply earning more might in itself give someone the confidence to ask for more as they have that card in their pocket if they choose to use it. Additionally, you can always ask for a title upgrade when receiving a counter offer too and that could be far more useful in the event that you don't disclose current comp... simply showing additional progression within a current role is valuable for your next move.
 
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I'm hopefully about to land in a similar situation. I have an interview for a job that pays 20% more than my current one. However, I like my current place and the work is novel and interesting. I suspect the new job would be more intense but less interesting. But that 20% increase is very enticing, so I might take the opportunity to make my current employer aware of the new offer and see what their response is. Useful advice on here about not raising it in a threatening manner, though.
 
MrRockliffe said:
Id say so

If you’re at all people focused, you might be better off in a solution architect role - you’ll get to code still, but you’ll also be commission based in addition to a good basic.

A good SA where I am will be on 80k+ inc commission.
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I'm a bit concerned because the company I work for is moving to a remote based approach which I like. However do they understand that my cost of living is different to people up north. I'm comfortable where I am but I guess jumping ship it's probably required.
 
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