ATC taking risks at Heathrow

Burnsy2023 · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:05

Just seen this on BBC News 24, not on the website yet.

Apparently there are so many planes ATC are taking risks to get all the planes on and off the runway.

Quite scary stuff by the sounds of it.

Burnsy

Raikiri · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:06

Scuzi's fault?

Burnsy2023 · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:06

Raikiri said:
Scuzi's fault?

Probably not, but we should blame him anyway.

Burnsy

Raikiri · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:07

It's usually the best policy.

Cosimo · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:09

Burnsy2023 said:
Apparently there are so many planes ATC are taking risks to get all the planes on and off the runway.

Not another excuse for a third runway.

Trick · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:14

It's a damning report. To say that operational expedition is being placed ahead of safety is very worrying. I'm an Air Traffic Control Instructor and I can assure you that the Military put safety above everything.

Scuzi · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:23

This has been a probloem which has reared it's head quite a lot recently. There is a lot of pressure on the tower controllers to clear the backlog on the ground and to get planes in the air. God knows how many times I have called the tower to complain about them launching two aircraft far too close together and handing them to me to sort out.

Something is being done about it though. Every time they cut it too fine it is being noted and action is being taken. Safety is the number one priority and whilst we do have to shave things a bit close in order to meet expedition targets, it isn't normal in day to day operations.

We are under immense pressure to shift traffic expeditiously and sometimes the safety margins do have to be reduced in order to allow it. This is perfectly fine in the hands of an experienced controller but a lot of the new kids on the block seem to get the impression that it is a matter of course.

The problem is being addressed though and those flying have nothing to worry about. It is not as bad as the media are making out (there's a surprise).

Trick said:
and I can assure you that the Military put safety above everything.

Easy to say when you don't have 15 aircraft in a cramped bit of airspace on your frequency all going in different conflicting tracks

LordSplodge · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:25

Burnsy2023 said:
Probably not, but we should blame him anyway.

Greg · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:25

I think you'll find this is the media AGAIN hyping things up?!

FrostedNipple · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:28

Scuzi said:
The problem is being addressed though and those flying have nothing to worry about. It is not as bad as the media are making out (there's a surprise)

Straight from the horses arse (or whatever the saying is)

I also believe what the rules say as a safe distance, is massive (i.e./e.g. elevator wires have to be safe for the max load, then they times the width by 10 just to be sure)

Scuzi · 20 Mar 2008 at 16:33

FrostedNipple said:
Straight from the horses arse (or whatever the saying is)

I also believe what the rules say as a safe distance, is massive (i.e./e.g. elevator wires have to be safe for the max load, then they times the width by 10 just to be sure)

Departure separation at Heathrow between an aircraft that has departed and one about to depart is as such (ignoring wake vortex separation):

Diverging tracks - 1 minute
Same track - 2 minutes

The trouble is that due to fuel saving measures, some airlines are climbing out at slower speeds in order to save fuel and when another aircraft is launched a minute behind on a different track but fairly close to the original, they are catching up and getting closer than they should.

Work is being done with controllers and the airlines to resolve it though.

Trick · 20 Mar 2008 at 17:13

Scuzi said:
Easy to say when you don't have 15 aircraft in a cramped bit of airspace on your frequency all going in different conflicting tracks

Lol, you haven't seen Leeming Director on 16, Teeside on 05, 25 and 11Sqn playing surge tactics and the entire UAS faffing in the Approach trying to get VMC being controlled by a WRAF with lippy in one hand and a dough nut in the other

Tomsk · 20 Mar 2008 at 17:34

Trick said:
Lol, you haven't seen Leeming Director on 16, Teeside on 05, 25 and 11Sqn playing surge tactics and the entire UAS faffing in the Approach trying to get VMC being controlled by a WRAF with lippy in one hand and a dough nut in the other

Can you translate that to normal computer geek speak please, so we can all understand it.

Biohazard · 20 Mar 2008 at 17:35

I think it was a game of tiddlywinks..

FrostedNipple · 20 Mar 2008 at 17:44

Scuzi said:
fuel saving measures

Surely some sort of standard should be set between the airlines per plane? It would make your jobs easier.

cheets64 · 20 Mar 2008 at 17:53

£££££ first, safety second, its not the the first time time safety has been put ahead of coin and it wont be the last.

NiCkNaMe · 20 Mar 2008 at 22:48

I don't care if the plane i'm on is licking the plane in front's ass... as long as I don't have a delay.

Scuzi, I land at LHR tommorow at 12ish... make sure I get in on time please

dannyjo22 · 20 Mar 2008 at 22:52

cheets64 said:
its not the the first time time safety has been put ahead of coin and it wont be the last.

Lets hope they keep it that way.

TriedandTested · 20 Mar 2008 at 22:56

One day they'll be a disaster. Only then will regulations/'margins' will be reviewed. You say safety is the number one priority?...i doubt that very much.

Bes · 20 Mar 2008 at 23:01

What the hell? Do you think he wants to see hundreds killed?! Of course it is, muppet!