ATI AA Settings??

[thegoonden]

Anything over 4XAA is waste of time, just use higher AF.

Funny, in Rfactor, GTR, GTL Race07, even the rather ancient GPL, I can see the difference between 16S and 32S (which is 2x2SS plus 8XMS).


And this worries me constantly.

Each time I ask about whether a 4870 will give me the same FPS as an 8800GTX, but with higher AA, people say yes. Then I keep seeing ATI users claiming that 4x is the max you ever need.

This is gonna end up with me buying a 280 out of sheer confusion.

 

[badbob]

Post screenshots comparing them?

 

[thegoonden]

Post screenshots comparing them?

post two 1920x1200 uncompressed bitmaps?

Don't think that would go down too well.

Also, your (clearly defective) eyes would not see the difference anyway

 

[badbob]

Post link to high quality screenshots.

 

[thegoonden]

Post link to high quality screenshots.

I'll see what I can do.

4x vs 8sx or 16sx.


DIdn't mean the defective eyes thing in a nasty way BTW.....just that if you can't see the difference on screen, you wont see it in screenshots either......it's like "how do I know we both see red the same way".

 

[thegoonden]

Ermmmmm they're 7meg each

But in taking them, I noticed EXACTLY what it is that makes me crave such high values.

In static screenies, 4x and 32x look quite close, until you look at things like aerials, or the armco barrier. It's the little aliassing glitches crawlaing up and down the former and along the latter (VERY noticable on the starting grid when revving the engine and the car rocks from side to side.....huge "things" race along the armco and back.).

I think I'd have to plonk you down in front of my montor with a replay on to convey this fully.

 

[The Asgard]

Funny, in Rfactor, GTR, GTL Race07, even the rather ancient GPL, I can see the difference between 16S and 32S (which is 2x2SS plus 8XMS).


And this worries me constantly.

Each time I ask about whether a 4870 will give me the same FPS as an 8800GTX, but with higher AA, people say yes. Then I keep seeing ATI users claiming that 4x is the max you ever need.

This is gonna end up with me buying a 280 out of sheer confusion.

Maybe you need to replace your coke bottle bottom glasses for something else?

Short of a magnifying glass I doubt anyone could tell any real difference between 16x & 32X AA especially in game.

 

[Greebo]

The [H] link I gave you shows high res zoomed in screenshots between different aa settings for both ATI and Nvidia.

To be fair, even they say that at higher levels you can only see the difference zoomed in on a static shot but I guess everybody sees differently and will "notice" subtle differences.

Looking at their pictures I can see a difference up to 8xaa, after that I am struggling.

 

[Final8y]

Ermmmmm they're 7meg each

But in taking them, I noticed EXACTLY what it is that makes me crave such high values.

In static screenies, 4x and 32x look quite close, until you look at things like aerials, or the armco barrier. It's the little aliasing glitches crawling up and down the former and along the latter (VERY noticeable on the starting grid when revving the engine and the car rocks from side to side.....huge "things" race along the armco and back.).

I think I'd have to plonk you down in front of my monitor with a replay on to convey this fully.

The Line/Dot crawl effect can be very distracting in driving games & even some others types like EVE Online that can not be represented on static pictures & i play EVE at 2560x1600 & even with 4xAAMS the edge crawl is very noticeable & testing at 24XAA its still noticeable.
I think that there maybe a limitation in EVE engine or the driver to really smooth out the edges in that game with higher AA as it did not seem to get any better after 4XAA but the overall Smoothness of the ships did improve as the AA went up as the fps when down.

 

[thegoonden]

Maybe you need to replace your coke bottle bottom glasses for something else?

Short of a magnifying glass I doubt anyone could tell any real difference between 16x & 32X AA especially in game.

Well, as I have now discovered, in static shots, you certainly do struggle to see it. So it seems that what is bugging me is the "artifacts" (for want of a better word), caused by alassing in motion. There's a particular version of Spa Francorchamps for GTR which for some reason always forces AA down to 4x, loading that after a few goes round any other circtuit is a real shock. From the top of the pitlane, near the La Source hairpin, the ludicrous cliff which is the Eau Rouge, is about a KM away, and the track deliniation line, the armco barrier and even the curbs all not only look horrific when stationary, but creep and crawl with moire-yness as soon as the car rocks or moves forward. Maybe that's part of why it's only driving games.....the level of detail (and amount of paralells therein) which needs viewing at enormous distances, relative to the few 10's of metres in most FPS games......and those that have much larger visible areas, have random, none repetive scenerey on view at that extream range of you see what I mean.



Whatever, My 8800 does the trick nicely FPS wise at 8SSAA (2x2SS+4MS), in most driving games, and any upgrade I make will be to get that to 16,24 or 32. Speaking of the combined modes, is that what CFAA does?
I'd drive me totally nuts if I bought a 4870 1GB and found anything uglier than it currently is, or found that using 16CFAA caused a slideshow.

 

[thegoonden]

The Line/Dot crawl effect can be very distracting in driving games & even some others types like EVE Online that can not be represented on static pictures & i play EVE at 2560x1600 & even with 4xAAMS the edge crawl is very noticeable & testing at 24XAA its still noticeable.

Yes, it certainly seems that it is that which is catching my eye.
Can see exactly how EVE might suffer too, same things.....straight, level, steady motion with lots of straight lines around to look at. Also the relatively slow way in which pitch and yaw motions are made in both a space game and a driving game, must amplify the noticability of the phenomenon.........in an FPS you might swing round 180 degrees in .2 seconds, you don't do this much in Rfactor (wellllllll.....there IS that 1985 F1 mod), instead you turn few a very few degrees per second, allowing the newly aliassed lines to "sink in" to your brain each time they jump to a new postition.

It's fortunate that such games take AA quite well though. I can run GPL at 32SSAA, and it truly is a thing of beauty, it takes real effort to see anything that gives it away as a computer screen.

 

[kylew]

Yes, it certainly seems that it is that which is catching my eye.
Can see exactly how EVE might suffer too, same things.....straight, level, steady motion with lots of straight lines around to look at. Also the relatively slow way in which pitch and yaw motions are made in both a space game and a driving game, must amplify the noticability of the phenomenon.........in an FPS you might swing round 180 degrees in .2 seconds, you don't do this much in Rfactor (wellllllll.....there IS that 1985 F1 mod), instead you turn few a very few degrees per second, allowing the newly aliassed lines to "sink in" to your brain each time they jump to a new postition.

It's fortunate that such games take AA quite well though. I can run GPL at 32SSAA, and it truly is a thing of beauty, it takes real effort to see anything that gives it away as a computer screen.

Maybe it is an ATi card you need then. I'm thinking edge-detect AA is something you'd like for your racing games.

It's most probably an 'issue' with racing games due to their fast moving nature, maybe they should start using FPS style motion blurring in racing games, they'd look loads more realistic in my opinion with it.

 

[The Asgard]

Well, as I have now discovered, in static shots, you certainly do struggle to see it. So it seems that what is bugging me is the "artifacts" (for want of a better word), caused by alassing in motion. There's a particular version of Spa Francorchamps for GTR which for some reason always forces AA down to 4x, loading that after a few goes round any other circtuit is a real shock. From the top of the pitlane, near the La Source hairpin, the ludicrous cliff which is the Eau Rouge, is about a KM away, and the track deliniation line, the armco barrier and even the curbs all not only look horrific when stationary, but creep and crawl with moire-yness as soon as the car rocks or moves forward. Maybe that's part of why it's only driving games.....the level of detail (and amount of paralells therein) which needs viewing at enormous distances, relative to the few 10's of metres in most FPS games......and those that have much larger visible areas, have random, none repetive scenerey on view at that extream range of you see what I mean.



Whatever, My 8800 does the trick nicely FPS wise at 8SSAA (2x2SS+4MS), in most driving games, and any upgrade I make will be to get that to 16,24 or 32. Speaking of the combined modes, is that what CFAA does?
I'd drive me totally nuts if I bought a 4870 1GB and found anything uglier than it currently is, or found that using 16CFAA caused a slideshow.

I have had pretty much every card ever produced and so far I think the 48XX series AA is probably the best. Lots of options with a low performance hit.

However if your happy with your GTX why change if it works for you.

 

[gurusan]

Settings are 8x MSAA, 12x Edge detect aa, and 24x edge detect aa. Which pic is which

I dont have any driving games installed at the moment though, I have Grid here though and can give that a try.

 

[Final8y]

Maybe it is an ATi card you need then. I'm thinking edge-detect AA is something you'd like for your racing games.

It's most probably an 'issue' with racing games due to their fast moving nature, maybe they should start using FPS style motion blurring in racing games, they'd look loads more realistic in my opinion with it.

Actually its not their fast moving nature as only the the road side objects move fast once your close to them as the track lines & barriers & fencing lines hardly move at all until you come to a sharpish turn.

 

[thegoonden]

Actually its not their fast moving nature as only the the road side objects move fast once your close to them as the track lines & barriers & fencing lines hardly move at all until you come to a sharpish turn.

Yup, exactly, that and slight side to side rocking.

As for those pics above, I can't tell which is which, move them around and I'll tell you though


Edge detect SOUNDS like the sort of thing that'd be good.

 

[Final8y]

Yup, exactly, that and slight side to side rocking.

As for those pics above, I can't tell which is which, move them around and I'll tell you though


Edge detect SOUNDS like the sort of thing that'd be good.

EVE has allot of straight edges & the slow rocking & boy you cant miss the line/bot crawl.

 

[thegoonden]

EVE has allot of straight edges & the slow rocking & boy you cant miss the line/bot crawl.

On that other thread, TheAsgard or Greebo or someone mentioned Edge detect possibly being better at killing this than normal MSAA.
Might be worth trying, question is, is it worth buying a ruddy big GFX card just to try it.

 

[Final8y]

On that other thread, TheAsgard or Greebo or someone mentioned Edge detect possibly being better at killing this than normal MSAA.
Might be worth trying, question is, is it worth buying a ruddy big GFX card just to try it.

Did that & it made no difference in that game accept to bring my fps down