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Just think of all those who administer these brutal assessments may one day end up with a disability themselves.
Atos subcontracts disability tests to NHS
- Thread starter Ilikeitblackplease
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Just think of all those who administer these brutal assessments may one day end up with a disability themselves.
They might not use those exact words but that's the message they've been putting across - strivers vs. skivers, even their own ministers admit it. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...in-attacks-on-welfare-scroungers-8442950.html
Soldato
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But again there are no direct quotes in there, just people's interpretation and inferences of other people's attitudes that don't seem to be backed up by a benefit claimants "rivers of blood" style speech.
The way I see it, people on the left seem to be jumping on anything they can because they know that the Tories don't have the greatest PR when it comes to these things and now saying stuff that has never actually been said or even implied by the cabinet.
Besides, what is wrong with the term 'strivers and shirkers' anyway (which again hasn't actually been used by the Government)? That term in no way implies that benefit claimants are the latter and non-benefit recipients are the former, only that some people are lazy and some aren't, which is true.
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This ^^
Calling the scroungers scroungers doesn't mean that their calling everyone on benefits scroungers.
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And there is also a hypocrisy as well because when a handful of MPs claimed dodgy expenses, very few people said "we shouldn't tar them all with them same brush" and in fact it became a free for all to **** them off for weeks on end. But then when it comes to benefit claimants you get told the likes of Mick Philpott are in the minority and he should practically be ignored if it means not lumping anyone else in with the criticism.
I'm neither left nor right but I can see inconsistent arguments and sadly i mostly see these coming from the left. If you suggest that you can't use a minority to tar the majority that's fine but you must be consistent with that when it comes to things like MPs expenses and tax dodging companies too.
I'll take that as being aimed at me seeing as I'm the only poster to put any detail up. To be honest I wished I'd not because I knew it wouldn't be long before the self appointed judges and finger waggers would be along to weigh in with their ten peneth. (that's not aimed at you, just an observation)
I'll also add, up until my most recent heart problems I've always worked and enjoyed it. When people think of work people always think of income and not being a scrounger. But it brings much more than that, being at home all day is soul destroying when you've been used to working, I miss my friends and colleagues very badly.
I have no experience with ATOS, so simply posted having fallen into the system following the problems with my heart. It worries and concerns me, because from what I've read it appears that it is not fit for purpose. Rather than assessing people medically it's simply a vehicle to move them from one list to another. It either finds people fit to work or not.
There is no middle ground that says this person is fine within these limits/criteria. That sort of helps make many unemployable, it's difficult enough making yourself attractive on the jobs market if you don't have quite the right qualifications let alone mentioning you may have some health issues. Employers just don't want to take a chance or need the hassle when the jobs market is flooded.
My hope is that the cardiologist will work his magic once again and get me going. That way I'll find a little something I can manage, not be judged as work-shy scrounger. Upside is I guess I'll earn under 10K so never pay income tax again.
Anyway I'm deleting my previous posts. Please anyone who's quoted me please delete too. (Third Opinion?) I'm unsubscribing.
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Listen man, don't let people get to you, I'm sure most on here are behind you, it's unfortunate there are some who have not an ounce of compassion, I hear you dude and will always fight in your corner, I hope all goes well for you man.
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deleted.
The ironic thing about these tests is of the 5 claimants I know the one that passed as unfit to work is a fraud (i've reported her as such as well) the other 4, passed as fit to work were genuine. Upon appealing (which all did) 3 were found to actually be unfit to work, the remaining person is unable to stand without the use of 2 sticks and is constantly on high strength painkillers but deemed fit to work.
Way to go ATOS!
Way to go ATOS!
This is obviously a silly suggestion but uhmm if you are being assesed for being fit for work all you need do is bring a GP signed note saying no you are not fit for x types of work due to x condition/disability.
Atos cannot decide whether you are fit because afaik they arent health professionals - end of story.
But sure they can *process* the applications based on information they receive from health professionals. Isnt that how its supposed to work? I dunno im in the dark really.
Atos cannot decide whether you are fit because afaik they arent health professionals - end of story.
But sure they can *process* the applications based on information they receive from health professionals. Isnt that how its supposed to work? I dunno im in the dark really.
That's not true because you need a fitnote to even be awarded the initial ESA payments that are the same level as JSA until you are assessed, after you are assessed and found not fit for work and put into the support group or your put into whatever the other group is called that's supposed to help you find work suitable for you.
once your in one of the 2 ESA groups you no longer need to provide fitnotes from your GP
They don't they just make a report advising the DWP who make the decision
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Actually Atos Healthcare do employ both Doctors, Nurses, etc who are "health professionals" ... whether they are doing the assessments I don't know.
someone secretly recorded a video on youtube and the woman wouldn't say if she had any medical experience for about 5 minutes.
she eventually admitted she was just a general nurse even though she claimed to have mental health experience near the start lol....
Even GP's aren't qualified enough to be assessing people never mind the clowns with minimal medical experience that ATOS use to keep costs down
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I think why I'm so cynical over this is a mate of mine who hasn't worked for 5 years now. Firstly a lot of people simplify the debate into the 'genuine vs the fraudsters' but it's really not that simple.
I would put my mate into a third category of the 'psychosomatic', people that believe they are ill and can't work but in reality it's just in their heads. Basically he worked in a factory from the age of 16 and always worked, he was always a nervous type of person but it didn't stop him working. I even worked at his place once for a few weeks and he was fine when he was there.
Anyway, about 5 years ago he came into some money, £50k in inheritance. A few weeks later he left work citing 'depression' and was initially supposed to be back in a couple of months. He never went back and slowly lived off his windfall to now when it's run out. In all that time, stuck in his bedroom and not going out it only (IMO) served to make any mild agoraphobia he did have into a bigger problem.
He's now run out of money and living off his benefits, he's got an appointment for an assessment and is now stressed and ill because of it. As a mate I obviously feel compassion but I also know his problems have been harbored and encouraged by his thoughts and actions. he's now been out of work for so long he's just scared to go back, it's confidence that's all.
It sounds horrible but I can't help feeling him getting ill is a subliminal version of the screaming toddler who sits down and refuses to stand up.
I would put my mate into a third category of the 'psychosomatic', people that believe they are ill and can't work but in reality it's just in their heads. Basically he worked in a factory from the age of 16 and always worked, he was always a nervous type of person but it didn't stop him working. I even worked at his place once for a few weeks and he was fine when he was there.
Anyway, about 5 years ago he came into some money, £50k in inheritance. A few weeks later he left work citing 'depression' and was initially supposed to be back in a couple of months. He never went back and slowly lived off his windfall to now when it's run out. In all that time, stuck in his bedroom and not going out it only (IMO) served to make any mild agoraphobia he did have into a bigger problem.
He's now run out of money and living off his benefits, he's got an appointment for an assessment and is now stressed and ill because of it. As a mate I obviously feel compassion but I also know his problems have been harbored and encouraged by his thoughts and actions. he's now been out of work for so long he's just scared to go back, it's confidence that's all.
It sounds horrible but I can't help feeling him getting ill is a subliminal version of the screaming toddler who sits down and refuses to stand up.
Uhm, you know that's not how politics works right? If people take the wrong message from what you say then you've failed to say the right words in the right way. If "strivers vs. shirkers" isn't the intended message then why haven't we seen any backtracking? If anything we're seeing this sort of rhetoric being stepped up, with "people who have their curtains drawn" while people are going to work being blamed for the deficit and acting as a barrier to "people who want to work hard and get on".
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Or people that disagree with the sentiment will attempt to spin what's been said in the most negative way as possible.
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It seems you don't how know politics works. When a political group make a policy or say something, the opposition then jump on it, cherry pick bits, quote mine out of context and fill in gaps with words that simply aren't there.
..and vice versa.
Just look at the "bedroom tax", a term that has never been used by the government and is inaccurate as a term. It's got nowt to do with how you present it, your opposition will alway misrepresent it.
How can you backtrack from something you never claimed in the first place?
Why haven't you started a thread a thread denying you beat your girlfriend? Because you haven't should I assume you do? No, clearly not.
A source for this? Please show where a politician has even come close to blaming lazy people for the deficit.
You can't because it's all in your head. You have presuppositions and simply fit what you hear to fit them, rather than listening to what's actually being said.
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cheers for clearing that up
They make a report? So they re-assess your suitability for work? Then send that report onwards to DWP, ok.
Seems to me that if their report indicates yes you are fit for work then when DWP tell you that you are fit for work because of the repor they have received from Atos....uhmm doesnt that mean that yes Atos do decide : they provide the evidence either way. DWP act on what evidence Atos gives them.
It doesnt seem a bit odd that you basically have "health professionals" working for a private firm Atos who will basically override a determination based on suitability for work by your own GP and/or NHS consultant (who specializes in the particular disability you may have).
Surely there is no need at all for Atos to get involved in this side of things....assessment of health and disability conditions is something the NHS should be doing no?
And if they contradict what your own NHS GP etc is advocating then which one is correct? Makes a mockery of the system no?