Audyssey setup / SPL meters

pioneer2000 · 13 Mar 2017 at 17:08

So, having got a new Denon X4300H to replace my aging Yamaha, I thought i'd give the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 a try as it is highly rated.

It has returned with differing distance measurements for all my speakers and set all levels to around -5db, which seems odd / unnecessary to me.

I've always set distance measurements manually in the past, however I have read recently that subwoofer measurements should not be done so as otherwise it may effect the phasing? (The Audyssey setup has put the distance at over 1m further away than the sub actually is, which is apparently the correct thing to do?)

Also, the crossovers have all been set individually, whereas previously they were all at 80Hz. Is there anyway to determine the best crossovers on a per speaker basis?

The current setup consists of:

Denon X4300H

Kef R500 floorstanders (Freq range = 39Hz - 45Khz)

Kef 200C center (Freq range = 52Hz - 45Khz)

Kef R400B subwoofer (Freq range = 26Hz - 140Hz)

Kef R50 front Atmos (Freq range = 96Hz - 19.5Khz)

Kef 3005SE surrounds

What should the crossovers ideally be for each of these?

Wondering if I might be better off getting a cheap SPL meter and manually calibrating them all?

hornetstinger · 15 Mar 2017 at 10:09

Nothing odd about -5dB, that's what the auto setup does, it sets each speaker to 75dB from the listening position. You can verify this by buying your own spl meter outputting test tones.

Before autosetup AVR's you usually set distances (delay) manually however this is not totally accurate, especially when it comes to the subwoofer as subs own DSP can introduce a delay. You read it wrong, the phase is setup part of the delay. If you adjust it manually the phase will be out. If the sub is 1m further away that means the sub amp board delays it for so many MS, so the AVR is correcting that.

Generally it's best to leave everything at small 80hz. As for your speakers they aren't what you posted fr is this

Frequency Response 46Hz - 28kHz (±3dB) Keff R500. I wouldn't set lower than small 60hz
You don't have the matching R center? But if you do have R200C FR is 65Hz - 28kHz (±3dB) so no lower than 70hz
Kef Atmos 105Hz – 18.5kHz (±3dB), so no lower than small 110hz
Kef R sub most likely around 35hz FR, crossover depends 80hz-120hz where you want it
Kef 3005SE probably set it to small 80hz

It's ok to adjust levels after the auto setup, and fine adjusting crossovers from the set 80hz to 120hz.. But don't change crossovers the other way round ie if it's set to 80hz, don't change it to 60hz as the EQ has applied filters so by adjusting that lower, the curves will be off.

pioneer2000 · 15 Mar 2017 at 14:10

Thanks, very helpful.

At present Audyssey has set the crossovers as:

40hz - R500

40hz - R200C (That is the matching center for the R500's)

80hz - R50

90hz - 3005SE

Why should I doubt these, if I am to trust the relatively odd looking distance measurements?

What does concern me is after running Audyssey, the sound now appears to be much quieter / flatter, with less dynamic range to my ears. Also the subwoofer is virtually muted at -6.5db.

hornetstinger · 15 Mar 2017 at 14:15

Because your room is making increasing the speakers low bass response than the actual speakers ability themselves. You should always set the AVR crossover higher than the actual speaker response.

pioneer2000 · 15 Mar 2017 at 14:24

So Audyssey is wrong is this instance?

hornetstinger · 15 Mar 2017 at 14:40

Pretty much auto crossover setup is wrong. It thought my speakers were full-range, they're not- they're standmounts.

Always go in and change it manually.

pioneer2000 · 15 Mar 2017 at 22:59

Is the LPF for LFE best to set at 120Hz? The denon defaulted to 80Hz but apparently Audyssey recommend 120Hz to ensure the entire .1 range is sent to the sub?

hornetstinger · 16 Mar 2017 at 08:40

Generally yes, because that is where the LFE mix is set. However on mine I personally don't like having a 120hz subwoofer setting, I find it too high.
Got a different unit to yours though.

pioneer2000 · 16 Mar 2017 at 11:48

Ok, so at present i've changed the crossovers to:

R500 --> 60Hz

R200C --> 60Hz

R50 --> 100Hz

3005SE --> 80Hz

LPF for LFE --> 120Hz

R400B sub setting --> 140Hz (on the actual sub itself)

Now I'm wondering if I am creating an issue as aren't the crossovers generally meant to be similar / the same to ensure all the speakers are consistent with each other?

By having the LPF at 120Hz, does that mean that all the .1 LFE signal up to 120Hz (which is the max the .1 signal can have) is being handled by the sub, and for everything else below the crossovers for the individual speakers is being redirected to the sub?

hornetstinger · 16 Mar 2017 at 11:51

"R400B sub setting --> 140Hz (on the actual sub itself)"

If possible you want to set the crossover on the subwoofer itself to maximum, or disabled.

"Now I'm wondering if I am creating an issue as aren't the crossovers generally meant to be similar / the same to ensure all the speakers are consistent with each other?"

Yes and no. If you have big speakers for front three, but small side/rears/atmos then you wouldn't set them to all the same, ie small 120hz.

"By having the LPF at 120Hz, does that mean that all the .1 LFE signal up to 120Hz (which is the max the .1 signal can have) is being handled by the sub, and for everything else below the crossovers for the individual speakers is being redirected to the sub?"

Correct.

pioneer2000 · 16 Mar 2017 at 12:21

hornetstinger said:
"R400B sub setting --> 140Hz (on the actual sub itself)"

If possible you want to set the crossover on the subwoofer itself to maximum, or disabled.

Sure, I believe 140Hz is the max on the sub... so I should be fine there.

Awesome help buddy

One last Q for the moment...

Am I better off adjusting the distances to be more accurate to the physical measurements, or shall I leave the Audyssey distances alone?

As an example, Audyssey is suggesting that my front left and front right are approx 5/10cm different in distance yet they are not when I measure myself. I assume it won't make much of a difference either way?

theone8181 · 16 Mar 2017 at 13:07

pioneer2000 said:
Sure, I believe 140Hz is the max on the sub... so I should be fine there.

Awesome help buddy

One last Q for the moment...

Am I better off adjusting the distances to be more accurate to the physical measurements, or shall I leave the Audyssey distances alone?

As an example, Audyssey is suggesting that my front left and front right are approx 5/10cm different in distance yet they are not when I measure myself. I assume it won't make much of a difference either way?

I thought you were worried about big distances not 5/10cm.

pioneer2000 · 16 Mar 2017 at 15:32

Well the amp measures it in 0.01m increments, so seems that there is scope to be that accurate.

hornetstinger · 16 Mar 2017 at 15:37

pioneer2000 said:
Well the amp measures it in 0.01m increments, so seems that there is scope to be that accurate.

Ignore distance. It's about the audio delay from each speaker to your listening position. That is how distance is calculated.

james.miller · 16 Mar 2017 at 17:24

Audyssey doesnt measure the physical distance,
it measures the time it takes for a signal to reach the microphone. If audyssey thinks your speakers are half a foot further away than they really are, it's because thats the best setting to use to integrate them with the rest of the speakers.

pioneer2000 · 16 Mar 2017 at 17:35

Ok, so trust the distances, ignore the crossovers it suggests?

hornetstinger · 16 Mar 2017 at 17:46

pioneer2000 · 18 Mar 2017 at 10:41

Hmm ive just noticed that Audeyssey multi eq features turn themselves off upon changing source (don't think it was doing this before)... could this be because I've changed the settings from the ones audeyssey set?