Australian Grand Prix 2011, Albert Park Circuit - Race 1/19

Shimmy said:
Teams can't afford to do that now.
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No team could afford to do that even during Ferrari's heyday.

MSc would definitely get first pick. He is No.1. There is no question that this was the case. However, to have newer parts available and not offer them to the No.2 driver, is quite bizarre.

Can you give me an explanation of why a team would do this (Ferrari or any other)...I genuinely would like to know?
 
Easy, prevents team mates from racing each other.

If you have a significant advantage over the field, you can afford to run one car a couple tenths slower. Avoids potential team mate crashes and the 2nd driver can back the field up.
 
To give a driver a slower car, on purpose (even though you can provide a faster car) is very dangerous.

Yes Ferrari, had a fast car, but they weren't light years ahead.

When Barrichello joined Ferrari, he was told that he was No.2 and had to give way to MSc. We know this as fact. Although it was never stated, Irvine almost certainly had the same deal, so if Ferrari didn't want MSc compromised, they would've just asked Irvine to move aside. This is much less dangerous and risky.

Also check out Irvine's last season with Ferrari. Ferrari certainly did not have the fastest car. Moreover, after MSc got injured Irivine was their lead driver. He still wasn't able to do the sort of damage that MSc was doing before he got injured.
 
Shimmy said:
Easy, prevents team mates from racing each other.

If you have a significant advantage over the field, you can afford to run one car a couple tenths slower. Avoids potential team mate crashes and the 2nd driver can back the field up.
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It's also been heavily rumoured and written about over the years that forget the chassis, MS car was not even the same electronically as his team mates. That he demanded an advantage and additions to his car that his team mate couldn't have.

I don't think that's a rare thing though in F1, as it's utterly ruthless and the main players use everything at their disposal.

Ferrari clearly didn't want Irvine to win the title in 99. They would have looked utterly foolish paying one guy 50 million while the guy paid about 4 wins the title. In the F1 forum last year Irv hints about car disparity and where his engine power dissapeared to at Japan.

I'm not sure who to believe because I never rated Irvine one bit but I'm sure one day someone will write a great book about those ferrari days.

I don't feel sorry for him, Massa or Rubens because no one forced them to sign the contract and forfeit all dignity.

Vettel clearly has made sure he gets everything his way and who can blame him if the team think he's much better than Mark. Personally I think they did their best last year to unsettle mark and make sure all the love went vettels way. They could have made sure Webber was a champ with races to go instead of risking the title. It will be interesting to see if they allow the same thing to happen and risk a Vettel title if Mark still has a remote mathmatical chance.
 
Qantas Australian Grand Prix Debrief

We’re looking forward to discussing the first F1 race of the season on Wednesday’s show. The AGP had no shortage of topics that will be looked into. We are pleased to have the F1 tech analyst from the blog ScarbsF1, Craig Scarborough, as the in-studio guest. Craig has appeared before and is a wealth of knowledge in all things technical.
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Live now if interested:

http://smibs.tv/live
 
What I find strange about the RBR 'we didn't have KERS' line is, 2 years ago when some teams didn't run KERS there was a specific graphic showing no KERS, yet RBR's graphic this weekend showed fully charged KERS all the time.

So either the FIA don't have a graphic for no KERS
Can't tell when a KERS is actually full
RBR are telling porkies.

Sorry if the above has been mentioned before.
 
JUMPURS said:
What I find strange about the RBR 'we didn't have KERS' line is, 2 years ago when some teams didn't run KERS there was a specific graphic showing no KERS, yet RBR's graphic this weekend showed fully charged KERS all the time.

So either the FIA don't have a graphic for no KERS
Can't tell when a KERS is actually full
RBR are telling porkies.

Sorry if the above has been mentioned before.
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I believe the FIA monitor when the kers activation circuit is actually active (so they can check only 7 seconds is being used or whatever).
If they've not been told the Kers was removed, then the graphic was probably there waiting for something to happen. Im not sure it can sense whether there is kers or not..

I hope that makes sense.
 
Shimmy said:
I certainly don't believe that to be the case with Webber and RBR though. Australia did seem a little strange, Webber has never done well there since his Minardi debut, but imo he isn't 0.8 sec slower than Vettel and he also required an extra pit stop over Vettel.
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Why not? they're a soft drinks company wanting to sell more drinks and Vettel is presumably their long term Red Bull icon, the last thing they would want is Webber ruining their marketing plans.

If anything Red Bull are more likely to do it than Ferrari or any other of the car manufacturing teams are because their interest is not in selling cars, they want someone like Vettel (a 2-5 years world champion) to sell more drinks.
 
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mmj_uk said:
Why not? they're a soft drinks company wanting to sell more drinks and Vettel is presumably their long term Red Bull icon, the last thing they would want is Webber ruining their marketing plans.

If anything Red Bull are more likely to do it than Ferrari or any other of the car manufacturing teams are because their interest is not in selling cars, they want someone like Vettel (a 2-5 years world champion) to sell more drinks.
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Far too early in the season for that nonsense really, you can only really see after a few races where everyone stands.

I'd suggest Webber had a set up problem or something, it wouldn't be in RBR's interest to make Webber 0.8 seconds slower in Quali trim and then go on to finish 5th in the race whilst Vettel coasts to 1st.
 
Shimmy said:
.....it wouldn't be in RBR's interest to make Webber 0.8 seconds slower in Quali trim and then go on to finish 5th in the race whilst Vettel coasts to 1st.
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To be fair Im not sure thats strictly true

1) If RB win the race - absolutely fantastic. They obviously think this is more likely to be SV. From the wider corporation point of view does it add much that its a 1-2 or not , mehhhh Im not so sure.

2) Renegotiating MW's contract (if they ever want to) its a lot cheaper for them the more times he isnt on the podium - with or without Vettel

3) For all we know they may already have a driver lined up to replace MW, might be a good way to force him out of the team

4) SV is happy either way - he knows he is the long-term lead driver, and he doesnt need to worry about internal competition (given thats usually the primary focus of most F1 drivers, ie those with "identical" equipment)
 
FrankJH said:
To be fair Im not sure thats strictly true

1) If RB win the race - absolutely fantastic. They obviously think this is more likely to be SV. From the wider corporation point of view does it add much that its a 1-2 or not , mehhhh Im not so sure.

2) Renegotiating MW's contract (if they ever want to) its a lot cheaper for them the more times he isnt on the podium - with or without Vettel

3) For all we know they may already have a driver lined up to replace MW, might be a good way to force him out of the team

4) SV is happy either way - he knows he is the long-term lead driver, and he doesnt need to worry about internal competition (given thats usually the primary focus of most F1 drivers, ie those with "identical" equipment)
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Can people stop this silly conspiracies? Drivers struggle from time to time- it happens. If there was ever any real truth in any of stories then surely we would have heard about it from some ex-engineer that was involved. Just look what happened when Renault fixed a race- it was blown open because a disgruntled employee opened his mouth.
 
ooopppssss

I actually meant to put "/Conspiracy compete" at the end of my post :D

But to be fair I was still pointing out that it wouldnt matter that much to RB as long as Vettel won the race :)

Owenb said:
Can people stop this silly conspiracies? Drivers struggle from time to time- it happens. If there was ever any real truth in any of stories then surely we would have heard about it from some ex-engineer that was involved. Just look what happened when Renault fixed a race- it was blown open because a disgruntled employee opened his mouth.
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A junior driver reproted it from spite after being given the evidence (ie being asked to crash) after he had been sacked- difficult for MW to get similar type of proof

Engineers still have a good livlihood on the 2nd car - yes Im sure they would prefer to be working on the No 1 car for sure, but that could be done by sheer hard work (potentially) - certainly NOT by ratting out your employer

///Conspiracy mode Definitely off lol :D
 
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Owenb said:
Can people stop this silly conspiracies? Drivers struggle from time to time- it happens. If there was ever any real truth in any of stories then surely we would have heard about it from some ex-engineer that was involved. Just look what happened when Renault fixed a race- it was blown open because a disgruntled employee opened his mouth.
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We will just have to wait and see what happens over the next few races. I doubt Webber has a car that is actually 0.8 seconds slower than Vettel. Then again, it wouldn't be the first time a number 2 driver has had a much slower car.
 
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