Auto boxes on "superminis"

Dr Who · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:19

Uriel said:
As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have to change gears it's automatic. That's probably what your average joe thinks too.

Makes no difference to most people whether it's 'automated' or 'automatic'. The outcome is the same, give or take a little smoothness or fuel economy.

And that is the legal position on the subject as well, so good enough for me.

Dr Who · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:20

[TW]Fox;21000832 said:
It's got two clutches - it's not an automatic.

Really? how many clutches would it need to qualify as automatic?

Scuzi · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:23

[TW]Fox;21000832 said:
It's got two clutches - it's not an automatic.

If it changes gear without user input it is automatic. Who cares about the mechanics behind it? If you don't have to do anything and the car changes gear automatically...... well yeah, you get the point.

Minstadave · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:23

Dr Who said:
Really? how many clutches would it need to qualify as automatic?

Best just to leave it, depends on your viewpoint - practicality vs pedantry.

[TW]Fox · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:24

Dr Who said:
Really? how many clutches would it need to qualify as automatic?

No clutches

Dr Who · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:26

[TW]Fox;21001852 said:
No clutches

Well sadly auto boxes have a lot of clutches, and always more than 1

EDIT: In fact that proves it, manuals have 1 clutch, autos have more than 1, we have a winner

Uriel · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:27

[TW]Fox;21001852 said:
No clutches

So by that definition CVT can something other than automatic. It's mostly implemented with a clutch (at least for Hondas), although I gather the new Jazz has CVT with torque converter...

RoboCod · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:31

So if you have an Auto only driving licence would one be able to drive the vehicle you're all debating is either auto or manual?

[TW]Fox · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:33

Captain Planet said:
So if you have an Auto only driving licence would one be able to drive the vehicle you're all debating is either auto or manual?

This bit really annoys me

Dr Who · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:34

[TW]Fox;21001943 said:
This bit really annoys me

That's the legal position

Uriel · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:35

If you have an auto licence I think you can drive torque converter, DSG, CVT or equivalents.

Basically I think if it has a clutch pedal you need a manual licence. No clutch pedal but gearstick present is a bit ambiguous. Paddle shifters are a bit of a grey area (especially if optional)

Someone on Pistonheads forums contacted the DVLA about this:

Thank you for your email.

I can confirm that provided you have a full category B licence (limited to automatics only) you will
be entitled to drive a vehicle meeting the below criteria.

A vehicle with automatic transmission means a class of vehicle in which either:-

the driver is not provided with any means whereby he may vary the gear ratio between the engine
and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the brakes or:

he is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which he may
operate manually and accordingly, a vehicle with manual transmission is any other class of vehicle.

Most vehicles fitted with automatic transmission today have a “hold” facility whereby the driver can
select a lower gear ratio “manually” for descending long steep gradients rather than relying totally
on the brakes.

This facility is sometimes used for increased power when overtaking slower vehicles rather than
using “kick down” on the accelerator, but we do not believe that this constitutes manual
transmission.

Regards

Mr I Owen
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=625270

For further clarification, I think if it says it's automatic on the V5C you're OK (usual DVLA and registration errors notwithstanding).

Dr Who · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:39

[TW]Fox;21001852 said:
No clutches

You mean pedals right?

[TW]Fox · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:40

You are all horrid and all automatics have a torque converter, otherwise they are semi auto or automated manuals now go away.

WIKIPEDIA AGREES WITH ME, which by extension means MrLOL does as well.

Uriel · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:41

[TW]Fox;21002000 said:
WIKIPEDIA AGREES WITH ME

Did you write it?

Dr Who · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:43

[TW]Fox;21002000 said:
WIKIPEDIA AGREES WITH ME, which by extension means MrLOL does as well.

I stand corrected and bow to wikipedia contributors contributor knowledge, oh wait

ash_scotland88 · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:58

squerble said:
Just echoing a previous comment, I had an 07 Focus, 1.6 automatic. For scootching around town it wasn't too bad at all, and could sit at 80mph on the motorway, but terrible otherwise, especially for anything more than moderate progress anywhere.

That said, the box itself was a poor 4 speed jobbie (probably from the 80s), and even driving conservatively I struggled to get above 28mpg. Horrible from a 100bhp 1.6

I'm sure my parents was the 5speed. I honestly cant remember though, I know (think) they had two types of auto.

Alex*TLR · 10 Jan 2012 at 22:59

If you are considering an automated manual then be warned that if you leave it in automatic mode it will be a bit lurchy.

The reason being when driving a manual you know when your going to shift so you automatically brace and prepare for any lurch, however with the auto-manuals as you aren't control you are never fully ready.

It also helps that once you get used to them it's best to back off slightly just as it's about to change gear, makes it a lot smoother.

Before anyone says ZOMG my xxx doesn't behave like this then apologies but the above is true for the Honda I-shift. Get a test in a Jazz I-shift, they great!

andy_mk3 · 10 Jan 2012 at 23:05

Alex*TLR said:
If you are considering an automated manual then be warned that if you leave it in automatic mode it will be a bit lurchy.

The reason being when driving a manual you know when your going to shift so you automatically brace and prepare for any lurch, however with the auto-manuals as you aren't control you are never fully ready.

It also helps that once you get used to them it's best to back off slightly just as it's about to change gear, makes it a lot smoother.

Before anyone says ZOMG my xxx doesn't behave like this then apologies but the above is true for the Honda I-shift. Get a test in a Jazz I-shift, they great!

But you soon get used to it and can easily anticipate when a gear change is coming by the way you're driving.

Uriel · 10 Jan 2012 at 23:26

Not in an i-shift. Hateful thing and now thankfully replaced by CVT on the Jazz.

NathWraith · 10 Jan 2012 at 23:39

Alex*TLR said:
If you are considering an automated manual then be warned that if you leave it in automatic mode it will be a bit lurchy.

The reason being when driving a manual you know when your going to shift so you automatically brace and prepare for any lurch, however with the auto-manuals as you aren't control you are never fully ready.

It also helps that once you get used to them it's best to back off slightly just as it's about to change gear, makes it a lot smoother.

Before anyone says ZOMG my xxx doesn't behave like this then apologies but the above is true for the Honda I-shift. Get a test in a Jazz I-shift, they great!

I only notice a slight jerkiness at very low speeds. Any other time gear shifts are seamless and you can't even feel them!