Automatic emergency braking.

  • Thread starter Thread starter SkodaMart
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SkodaMart

SkodaMart

Had a false ‘emergency’ last week.
Our car stopped dead on an S bend because a HGV was perceived to be approaching dead on (it wasn’t it was negotiating the bend - as was I).
It was an alarming experience and I was obviously glad that the car behind us wasn’t following too closely. (God only knows what they thought).
I’m pleased it wasn’t a motorcycle behind me.
So then what happens if this system causes a crash? What happens if I switch it off and have a crash myself?
I can mainly see the value of it but one false positive is too many.
 
First port of call is probably to speak to the dealer about it, no? I'd presume it's a fairly recent car and that's not expected behaviour so perhaps a sensor is a borked.
 
Temujin said:
First port of call is probably to speak to the dealer about it, no? I'd presume it's a fairly recent car and that's not expected behaviour so perhaps a sensor is a borked.
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No it’s working fine.
A large HGV was approaching me at speed dead on.
The ‘system’ wasn’t aware that the HGV was going to turn.
It’s fallible.
 
It also stopped any chance I would have had of taking evasive action rather than braking.
 
SkodaMart said:
No it’s working fine.
A large HGV was approaching me at speed dead on.
The ‘system’ wasn’t aware that the HGV was going to turn.
It’s fallible.
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I think it's still relevant to raise your concerns with the dealer.
After all, road layouts like that exist all over the world so surely not every car with automatic braking is going to be stopping in them?
 
Temujin said:
I think it's still relevant to raise your concerns with the dealer.
After all, road layouts like that exist all over the world so surely not every car with automatic braking is going to be stopping in them?
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Just talking about it at work. A guy here with a new Audi A3, his car has done it too.
 
Be interested to see the bend in question on google maps

I think things like AEB are at an odd point in the technology timeline - it's clever and probably on average solves more problems than it causes but not quite clever enough necessarily in all circumstances. A more advanced system though, from a genuine 'driverless' type car, that can calculate the course other objects are on, the path of the road etc. will probably eliminate these sort of issues but they need the technology as it stands now to highlight the problems that need fixing.
 
Kenai said:
Be interested to see the bend in question on google maps

I think things like AEB are at an odd point in the technology timeline - it's clever and probably on average solves more problems than it causes but not quite clever enough necessarily in all circumstances. A more advanced system though, from a genuine 'driverless' type car, that can calculate the course other objects are on, the path of the road etc. will probably eliminate these sort of issues but they need the technology as it stands now to highlight the problems that need fixing.
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https://goo.gl/maps/TbYKUvUi69FL61Rw6

I’m pretty sure it has a steering angle sensor, it knows which way our car is headed.
There was however, for a brief moment that the HGV was on a collision course.
The system reacted as it should.
It lacks the intelligence to see that the HGV was about to change course.
(If it didn’t I wouldn’t have braked I would have swerved to avoid a 38 ton stone moving lorry).
 
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Temujin said:
First port of call is probably to speak to the dealer about it, no? I'd presume it's a fairly recent car and that's not expected behaviour so perhaps a sensor is a borked.
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Nope I have had several on certain road layouts which fool the system into thinking you are about to have a head on crash.
 
I had this happen in a Toyota I borrowed while overtaking parked cars. It then immediately got turned off as its clearly less dangerous that way.
 
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The answer here is....the system should be able to tell from both LIDAR and navigation data that you're on a single carriageway road with a bend in it.

It is not working as intended. Raise the fault with the dealer.
 
mid_gen said:
The answer here is....the system should be able to tell from both LIDAR and navigation data that you're on a single carriageway road with a bend in it.

It is not working as intended. Raise the fault with the dealer.
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Let’s imagine the driver of the 38 Ton truck had passed out at the wheel and was about to hit me.
The LAST thing I wanted to do was stop, I’m dead anyway. Evasive action was the only safe option, not braking.
Automated driving is dangerous under certain circumstances.
 
I drive roads like that fairly regularly including having big vehicles coming the other way - never seen someone randomly brake hard or been in a vehicle with automatic emergency braking which has done it (don't have it on mine).

It might explain why some drivers brake lights come on in those situations though - I put it down to new/inexperienced drivers - but they've not braked hard almost immediately resumed speed.
 
Our DAF trucks do this all the time. They are very sensitive to the shadows of motorway bridges and will often slam the brakes on for no reason. Joggers and cyclists on pavements on a curved bend also make them a bit twitchy.

These AEB systems are pretty primitive and purely reactive to certain triggers, they have no real ability to proactively read the road, and they don't really relate to the tech in the UKfully autonomous vehicles that are being developed.

If you don't like idea of you car braking by itself, consider they are spending millions researching and developing the AI that will make an active decision to kill you over other people depending on the situation the car finds itself in.
 
Rroff said:
I drive roads like that fairly regularly including having big vehicles coming the other way - never seen someone randomly brake hard or been in a vehicle with automatic emergency braking which has done it (don't have it on mine).

It might explain why some drivers brake lights come on in those situations though - I put it down to new/inexperienced drivers - but they've not braked hard almost immediately resumed speed.
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It’s definitely something to be aware of when you are following someone.
I can see road rage ensuing from it.
God only knows what the driver behind me thought?
 
Rroff said:
I drive roads like that fairly regularly including having big vehicles coming the other way - never seen someone randomly brake hard or been in a vehicle with automatic emergency braking which has done it (don't have it on mine).

It might explain why some drivers brake lights come on in those situations though - I put it down to new/inexperienced drivers - but they've not braked hard almost immediately resumed speed.
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There is one road mine does it everyday at exactly the same point, But I know its going to do it and I am ready for it and override it quickly. person behind will just see my brake lights come on for a short while and I lose 5-10mph of speed before I get back control.
 
I've had this in works Skoda Superb and also witnessed a friends Seat Ibiza do it twice within a mile stretch of motorway.. In my opinion it's more dangerous than not having it
 
rpmmatt said:
If you don't like idea of you car braking by itself, consider they are spending millions researching and developing the AI that will make an active decision to kill you over other people depending on the situation the car finds itself in.
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I remember watching something about that.
Scary stuff.
 
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