And this is what some of the truck drivers in the US are saying about the advent of AV trucks:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Robot-cars-may-kill-jobs-but-will-they-create-12410820.php
Autonomous Vehicles
- Thread starter adam cool dude
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And this is what some of the truck drivers in the US are saying about the advent of AV trucks:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Robot-cars-may-kill-jobs-but-will-they-create-12410820.php
Lidar, which currently costs approx $ 75,000 appears to be falling fast. Already a new company, Ouster, has a LIDAR almost as good as the $ 75,000 Velodyne LIDAR for a price of $ 12,000. All AV companies, with the exception of Tesla, appear to be pursuing LIDAR as part of their AVs.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-ouster-lidar-20171211-htmlstory.html
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-ouster-lidar-20171211-htmlstory.html
From your friends at Uber, who are fighting for their license in London and who want to bring you an AV in future:
https://gizmodo.com/ubers-massive-scraping-program-collected-data-about-com-1820887947
https://gizmodo.com/ubers-massive-scraping-program-collected-data-about-com-1820887947
I believe your description of Uber's "data scraping programs" is perhaps just the tip of the iceberg in legal troubles facing Uber and their desire to launch an AV.
A two page letter from the Department of Justice points to at least one criminal investigation (ie, there may well be more) and the DOJ has unusually intervened with it in the Waymo v Uber civil case in which Waymo is accusing Uber of stealing trade secrets from Waymo.
A redacted version of the 37 page letter written by an ex-Uber employees attorney is expected to be released in a couple of days giving Waymo time to pursue Uber ahead of the expected trial date in early February 2018. So far in court proceedings ahead of the release of this letter, it has been stated that the Jacobs' group (the "Marketplace Analytics" team) was involved with collecting trade secrets and other not-supposed-to-be-publicly-available information-- sometimes from mis-configured, internet-facing servers. That kind of thing is an easy way to fall afoul of the US Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
https://www.law.com/therecorder/sit...ers-from-federal-prosecutors-in-waymo-v-uber/
and
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...es-over-acquisitiion-of-self-driving-car-firm
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Here is a link to the 37 page whistle-blower letter referred to above from the former Uber employee, Richard Jacobs. Uber is cast in a very negative light. Their management comes off as a bunch of sleezy, corrupt and immoral jerks who routinely conducted illegal activities. How can the public trust Uber?
I would not be surprised if this letter is read closely by Transport for London who is currently reviewing Uber's license to continue to operate in London. It will form an important part of the lawsuit that is expected to commence in early February where Waymo (Google) accuses Uber of trade secret theft.
https://www.law.com/therecorder/sit...ployees-whistleblower-letter-in-waymo-v-uber/
I would not be surprised if this letter is read closely by Transport for London who is currently reviewing Uber's license to continue to operate in London. It will form an important part of the lawsuit that is expected to commence in early February where Waymo (Google) accuses Uber of trade secret theft.
https://www.law.com/therecorder/sit...ployees-whistleblower-letter-in-waymo-v-uber/
I think trust in Uber is completely gone for many, an essential quality if you as a future passenger in any AV they provide and in which you put your life on the line.
Uber is a company that has allegedly engaged in stealing Waymo's trade secrets (esp after Google provides Uber with mapping technology). In addition Uber management allowed their employees to impersonate drivers, riders, and protestors, bribed foreign officials, recorded competitors and employees without their knowledge, and used untraceable devices for communication.
No, I think Uber is far from the "typical corporation" and ranks in a class of its own. How can Transport for London overlook these allegedly illegal acts when reviewing whether to renew Uber's license to operate in London and whether to ever allow such a Company to operate a fleet of self driving vehicles?
With the winter season starting in a few days, it is interesting to consider what a self driving vehicle (AV) needs in order to navigate severe winter conditions where snow is falling and road markings are often covered up by fallen snow. Finnish researchers recently conducted research. Bottom line: many more sensors.
https://qz.com/1159609/finnish-rese...ing-car-that-successfully-drove-through-snow/
https://qz.com/1159609/finnish-rese...ing-car-that-successfully-drove-through-snow/
Even more systems to go wrong
Yes agree it is a real challenge but one that can and will be overcome. Add to the challenges the risks from cybersecurity too and see what some of the issues are and what Waymo for example is doing about them:
http://www.ttnews.com/articles/autonomous-vehicles-pose-new-challenges-future-cybersecurity
I wonder what the one or two "issues" about the accuracy of Uber's London license deal are about? Could it be that they misrepresented things to TfL?
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-u...curacy-of-ubers-licence-details-idUKKBN1ED16Y
Interesting approach to passenger insurance announced today by Waymo. For their "on demand" robo-taxi service set to begin operations in Phoenix, they will insure passengers for things like lost property and medical expenses from an accident.
They announced a tie up with Trov, a start up that operates in the UK and Australia (Trov is reinsured by the giant Munich Re). The cost of the insurance is actually in the price of the ride so there is no need for you to carry a personal robo-taxi insurance or take any additional action, unlike say when you rent a car from Avis or Hertz, or when you own your own car, where you pay separately for insurance cover.
As Waymo develops this business, I could imagine that safety experience is built up so when they negotiate with an insurer, prices for insurance they pay will come down. The cost of this insurance will therefore be invisible to the rider.
Trov is an agile start-up taking on big insurance companies so it will be interesting to see the reaction of the big players. Until now, Trov's operations as an insurer covered tech gadgets and mobile phones in which the operation of the device or phone could be remotely disabled.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...nch-insurance-for-ride-hailing-300573229.html
They announced a tie up with Trov, a start up that operates in the UK and Australia (Trov is reinsured by the giant Munich Re). The cost of the insurance is actually in the price of the ride so there is no need for you to carry a personal robo-taxi insurance or take any additional action, unlike say when you rent a car from Avis or Hertz, or when you own your own car, where you pay separately for insurance cover.
As Waymo develops this business, I could imagine that safety experience is built up so when they negotiate with an insurer, prices for insurance they pay will come down. The cost of this insurance will therefore be invisible to the rider.
Trov is an agile start-up taking on big insurance companies so it will be interesting to see the reaction of the big players. Until now, Trov's operations as an insurer covered tech gadgets and mobile phones in which the operation of the device or phone could be remotely disabled.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...nch-insurance-for-ride-hailing-300573229.html
Interesting approach by a Finnish Company in how they adapt the AV to snow covered roads and in snowy weather conditions. Basic answer: algorithms.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...a-fully-autonomous-car-made-for-snowy-streets
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...a-fully-autonomous-car-made-for-snowy-streets
Autonomous cars could make transportation free for everyone! Yes, everyone. But with a catch. How interested would you be in stopping at some stores along the way to support your free ride?
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/self-driving-cars-free-future/548945/
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/self-driving-cars-free-future/548945/
There's a nice idea in there; a supermarket could buy a fleet of AVs and offer to pick customers up, take them to the store, and drop them home when they're done. I'm thinking about elderly customers in particular here, many of whom have some difficulty getting out to shop without help from family and friends. The cost of owning (leasing?) and running the vehicles would have to be low though, given how tight supermarket margins are.
It won't be free, not for long at least. You'll have to pay like you do on a bus or taxi and like them you can guarantee it will end up costing more than running your own car in the long run. At the top there are always fatcat shareholders who want more and more profit from anything they can.
Just like running an EV won't be cheap forever. Once most people have an EV, they will slap some new tax on them. They are just waiting until there is no other option.
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Don
Aye and given slapping tax on electricity would be political suicide, it just means massive annual car tax bills for everyone instead.
@satchef1
Remember also that with AVs, vehicle design can change to accomodate multiple users on the same trip to the same "supermarket" in your example, thereby driving down the cost of operating the AV to the supermarket owner.
Regarding supermarket margins, you might be surprised to learn that UK supermarkets today have very high margins compared to, for example, US supermarkets (4% vs 2% from what I have read), but even this margin assumption may prove far too low in future. Why? A number of supermarket companies are testing out the idea of a cashier-less store by using the same technology that AVs use on self driving cars---namely, apps and sensors. In such a store, when the shopper picks an item from the shelf and places it in a basket or trolley, the item will be charged to the customer. You simply would walk into the store, shop and walk out, all the while removing layers of costs for the supermarket. While this recent link does not mention it, robots could easily restock shelves reducing the need for human employees. Labour represents a significant cost of operations at a supermarket.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...hierless-store-is-almost-ready-for-prime-time
@Nasher @Jokester
Rather depends on the country or region you live in I assume. Can Governments and Local Authorities adapt to the new reality coming. Can cities plan ahead or will they always do the "knee-jerk" thing and just tax a new idea? Can cities make up for loss of road tax revenues or congestion charging or as Jokester suggests, electricity tax, in a world of zero- emission EVs that are AVs?
I believe we can redesign cities around technological breakthroughs such as AVs. See the link below for example in what Sidewalk Labs and the city of Toronto are planning for Toronto's Waterfront area. If land used today for parking spaces on streets or in car parks for example can largely be eliminated by AVs that operate as ride-hailing, app-obtained services that are in constant motion when not being recharged, can cities derive revenues in change of land use to offset lost revenues from road taxes or congestion charges for example? Sidewalk’s ambitions for its Toronto project include innovations that allow for more affordable housing stock, connected transit systems, environmentally-friendly and sustainable resource consumption, and data-driven community services. Surely there is scope for replacement revenue for Government.
https://www.sidewalklabs.com/
Remember also that with AVs, vehicle design can change to accomodate multiple users on the same trip to the same "supermarket" in your example, thereby driving down the cost of operating the AV to the supermarket owner.
Regarding supermarket margins, you might be surprised to learn that UK supermarkets today have very high margins compared to, for example, US supermarkets (4% vs 2% from what I have read), but even this margin assumption may prove far too low in future. Why? A number of supermarket companies are testing out the idea of a cashier-less store by using the same technology that AVs use on self driving cars---namely, apps and sensors. In such a store, when the shopper picks an item from the shelf and places it in a basket or trolley, the item will be charged to the customer. You simply would walk into the store, shop and walk out, all the while removing layers of costs for the supermarket. While this recent link does not mention it, robots could easily restock shelves reducing the need for human employees. Labour represents a significant cost of operations at a supermarket.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...hierless-store-is-almost-ready-for-prime-time
@Nasher @Jokester
Rather depends on the country or region you live in I assume. Can Governments and Local Authorities adapt to the new reality coming. Can cities plan ahead or will they always do the "knee-jerk" thing and just tax a new idea? Can cities make up for loss of road tax revenues or congestion charging or as Jokester suggests, electricity tax, in a world of zero- emission EVs that are AVs?
I believe we can redesign cities around technological breakthroughs such as AVs. See the link below for example in what Sidewalk Labs and the city of Toronto are planning for Toronto's Waterfront area. If land used today for parking spaces on streets or in car parks for example can largely be eliminated by AVs that operate as ride-hailing, app-obtained services that are in constant motion when not being recharged, can cities derive revenues in change of land use to offset lost revenues from road taxes or congestion charges for example? Sidewalk’s ambitions for its Toronto project include innovations that allow for more affordable housing stock, connected transit systems, environmentally-friendly and sustainable resource consumption, and data-driven community services. Surely there is scope for replacement revenue for Government.
https://www.sidewalklabs.com/
I work in the industry. The margins aren't news to me. And they aren't great. The business I work for has margins of about 5%, but that's largely because non-foods and services subsidise the food retail part of the business. To drive Doris and her pals to the supermarket and still turn a profit on their weekly grocery shop, the cost of the transport has to be really low. It's why it doesn't happen now.
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