Awesome (Super) Supercapacitor!

How about the potential to charge your electric in a few minutes and your devices in seconds. :rolleyes: Can current batteries do that ?

:rolleyes:
This is stupid, no it cant charge in a few seconds, u nless your talking about a very tiny cell to power an led, read the article, it charges at three time the speed of current lithium ion, toshiba scib already charges faster than that, and the battery prototypes as link can charge upto 10x faster. Thats some 3x faster than the Grapheme superconductor.
 
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:rolleyes:
This is stupid, no it cant charge in a few seconds, u nless your talking about a very tiny cell to power an led, read the article, it charges at three time the speed of current lithium ion, toshiba scib already charges faster than that, and the battery prototypes as link can charge upto 10x faster. Thats some 3x faster than the Grapheme superconductor.

Like I said you didn't watch the video and LISTEN. Skip to 2:20 in the video and he talks about the potential for this technology and he clearly states being able to charge a device in seconds or an electric car in a minute.
 
Like I said you didn't watch the video and LISTEN. Skip to 2:20 in the video and he talks about the potential for this technology and he clearly states being able to charge a device in seconds or an electric car in a minute.

I know what the video says, its not backed up by the paper. The reality is as a lot of articles say the protoype is out done by several magnitudes by prototype batteries, it really is as simple as that.

Why not read my links have you clearly haven't. The only thing he charged up in seconds was a small cell that powered a led. The actual charge time of an ev sized power pack is much longer. As every single article on Graphene superconductor says. Promotional video /= relaiity.
 
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I know what the video says, its not backed up by the paper. The reality is as a lot of articles say the protoype is out done by several magnitudes by prototype batteries, it really is as simple as that.

Why not read my links have you clearly haven't. The only thing he charged up in seconds was a small cell that powered a led. The actual charge time of an ev sized power pack is much longer. As every single article on Graphene superconductor says. Promotional video /= relaiity.

OMG. I'm done talking to you. Ridiculous !
 
I think Glaucus is getting confused between prototypes of existing tech and the first iteration bog future tech...
 
I think Glaucus is getting confused between prototypes of existing tech and the first iteration bog future tech...

Not at all.

The grapene superconductor is a prototype.
The new battery techs are also prototypes that outclass them.

Then there's current tech like the toshiba scib that are very fast charging, have a 6000 cycle life etc and are on sale now.

The fact is even the Graphene superconductor only just matches the storage currently available and is eclipsed by the protoypes.
 
Graphene 'enhanced' li-ion does greatly improve charge and discharge rates but it's not comparable to a graphene based supercapacitor - vastly better dis/charge rates, predicated to have a higher life-span compared to li-ion and can be made 'flexible'.

The technology is still it's infancy and we're a long way from seeing graphene supercapacitors used commercially however, so graphene (or silicon) li-ion will likely be the best stop-gap measure for a few years yet.


The fact is even the Graphene superconductor only just matches the storage currently available and is eclipsed by the protoypes.

One technology is still it's infancy; the other is reasonably well established. So to have an infant technology match an established technology is an impressive feat.
 
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You don't need a higher life span, take the toshiba scib, that already has a life span that will massively outlive the device. At 6000cycles+.
We also need capacity as well as fast charging, which battery technology is providing where the Graphene superconductor isnt. It can just about match current gen lithium ion. Which is small fry compared to the prototypes.

Again even the toshiba scob is down to 80% charge in 6mins.

http://www.scib.jp/en/
SCiB™ is a rechargeable battery with superb safety.
By using newly developed oxide materials, SCiB™ holds high resistance toward thermal runaway resulting from short circuiting caused by physical stress. SCiB™ also have excellent characteristics such as, long life with minimal capacity loss even after 10,000 Full charge-discharge cycles, rapid charging capability with ability to charge 80% of the capacity in as fast as 6 minutes. High power output with performance equivalent to that of an EDLC (Electric Double-Layer Capacitors), and good cryogenic performance with ability to function even at -30℃.
And thats not even a prototype that's on sale now and will be in at least two EV cars in 2014
Car manufactures want a 150,000 mile car lifespan, at 6000+ charges it more than outdoes that lifespan and shouldn't need changing in the cars lifespan or several lifespans.
 
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I'm not disagreeing with lithium-titanate (LTO) being a good technology and i've stated that it'll be a good stop-gap; still not comparable to the potential of graphene supercapacitors though given the same amount of R&D time.
 
Dont agree, capacitors still have a huge way to go and as i keep saying even the current crop of prototypes capacitor or batteries, the batteries win overall.

Whats next on the Grapheme superconductor research? Graphene is a super material and capacitors are pretty basic. Theres far more gains to be made from these new materials in batteries than the capacitor.

Is it good research, absolutly. If it is super cheap it will be good for certain niche markets, is it going to be a revolution compared to battery prototypes, i highly doubt it. Capacity and a fats charge are equally important, battery prototypes have both. Capacitors only have one, even the Graphene super capacitor still only has one, compared to its competition. Let alone the korean research team who have claimed 30-120 times faster charging batteires, which bring charge times down to 2 minutes on ev sized packs.
 
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I would be more concerned about the infrastructure required to charge a high capacity device like an EV battery in minutes. Your average 13 amp wall socket won't.
 
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Honda and another car manufacture will be releasing EV cars this year with Scib batteries that recharge from a standard wall charger in ~3hrs due to the constraint off the power delivery. If they fitted a faster charger they could charge even faster. But they aren't fitting them with fast chargers due to battle of standards.

You can't pull all that much charge out of a domestic supply in 3 hours. Regardless of how quickly a battery can theoretically be charged, supply will impose a limit.

Consider, for example, an EV with 50 KWh. Not an unreasonable figure - with regenerative braking that would have a range of ~200 miles in temperate weather and with normal driving. If you want that charged to full in 3 minutes, to make it comparable to filling a tank with fuel, you have to throw 1 MW into it, and that's assuming a 100% charging efficiency (which is, of course, impossible).

Lithium Titanate batteries (which is what the Scib batteries are) aren't completely new and they aren't at all likely to be as transforming as they are often claimed to be. If they were, then they would already have replaced all other batteries and we'd be seeing a lot more EVs.

EVs just aren't quite viable yet and none of the prototype batteries will be the total game-changer they're always portrayed as being. Time and time again, we hear "new battery charges faster than filling a tank and lets you travel 1000 miles for 50p, blah blah blah" and it doesn't happen. The lily has been hugely gilded time and time again and it's counter-productive.

Besides, the batteries themselves are only one part of the problem. Probably the biggest part, but all parts need to be solved. You mention one which is generally ignored - standards. Companies are loathe to speculate a fortune on a product/infrastructure that could so very easily be the Betamax of EVs.

Then you've got the big increase in requirements for electricity generation and distribution - how is that going to happen and who will pay for it?

Then you've got what would still currently be a complete blocker even if the technological problems were sorted out - it's still cheaper to use ICEVs than EVs. The cost of EVs is falsely presented as being much lower by ignoring battery costs (which are huge) and the vast difference in taxation (which is only sustainable while EV use is negligable).

And that's where this capacitor might have a bigger role than you think. It should be very cheap to make and it should lose maximum charge much more slowly, so it should significantly reduce cost of purchase and cost per mile.

I'm not seeing a case for EVs being anything more than niche products in the near future. 20 years from now, maybe, if there are signficant advances in technology and standards are agreed.

Also, I think the very fast charging is over-emphasised. Battery swapping would be viable with standardisation and some reduction in size and weight (it's doable with current batteries, but it would be more practical with smaller and lighter batteries). The main issue from a motorist's point of view is practicality - if they can drive into a station with low charge and drive out again 5 minutes later with high charge, they're not going to care whether it's in the same battery or a different battery of the same type. The battery they drove in with can then be recharged in the station and put in another car later. Doesn't matter how long it takes to charge as long as the station has enough batteries. Of course, that worsens another problem - the number of batteries required is already impractically high for widespread EV usage and this would make it much worse. But that's another problem this capacitor might perhaps resolve - if it can be made cheaply from a very common materials then making lots of them isn't a problem any more.

I think I might see EVs replacing ICEVs in my lifetime, but not soon.

EDIT: For "battery swapping", read "battery or capacitor swapping". I know they're not the same thing. Is there a blanket term for devices which store energy and release it on demand as electricity?
 
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It should actually be very cheap because unlike conventional batteries you don't need the cadmium, lithium etc. which are costly to produce. It's also biodegradable so need for expensive recycling.

Never heard of Ni-Mh then? It's what many electric cars use. :p
 
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