Backing up NAS Drives

[Darryl_1983]

I was originally looking at the 2 bay synology options and running 2 2TB drive in a RAID setup. But this only offers a backup if a drive fails. I figured if the drives are damaged in a fire or stolen, etc. It would be best to have a backup elsewhere.

So another possible option is to have 2 single bay units, with a 2TB drive, one at home and another at work say, acting as a back up of the home unit. Is this something that can easily be setup on the Synology units?

I've no experience with NAS or backing up data like this

 

[ElliorR]

Firstly call it redundancy not backup or you'll be shot. I was

I bought a Synology NAS last week and I'm backing that up onto an external HDD but if you have 2 Synology NAS units there is an option to back up to another Synology NAS in the Hyper backup softtware withing Diskstation Manager so I assume it'll make backing up very easy.

 

[Darryl_1983]

Really?.... redundancy doesn't make as much sense as back up in my mind.

Thanks for the info, I did think about external hard drives, but i know i'll end up forgetting to do back ups after a while. Really just need something that is simple and if possible even automated.

How are you getting on with the Synology NAS (which unit did you go for)?

 

[ElliorR]

It must be an IT thing.

I bought the DS418play and think it's a great device. Diskstation Manager is a great interface that is relatively easy to use but does seem quite complex. I bought the DS418play so it could be a Plex server, as it has an Intel CPU, as well as storage and it fulfills those roles perfectly.

 

[seagate_surfer]

Hey Darryl_1983, Seagate here. A few thoughts that might help:

You're on the right track with thinking offsite for backups. The IT Pro's rule-of-thumb for backups reflects what you want to do for the reason you mentioned. It's called the 3-2-1 method.

Keep 3 copies of your data - 2 stored on premises but on different storage mediums - 1 copy offsite to prevent against disaster such as fire, tornado, dinosaurs crashing through your living room, you know.

Let's go into the reason that redundancy and backups are different, and why everyone says that RAID is not, in-and-of itself, a backup. RAID is meant to prevent a system's downtime. Envision you're running a website, there's a server which handles the credit card transactions for said website. If a hard drive in that server were to go down and it took the server offline with it because of something like a hard drive issue, then every second that server was offline would mean panic and would be burning a hole in your wallet. So RAID is meant for that kind of use because it allows you, when a hard drive crashes, to keep said server online, no panic and lost revenue while you swap in a new drive on the live system and let it rebuild the array around that new drive. Rebuilding RAID arrays, especially massive ones, can take a very long time though as the goal is to preserve the system staying online.

A backup, on the other hand, is all about keeping the integrity of the data safe and making it readily available should you need to restore it onto a new drive in the event that a drive dies. Making it so there's multiple places the drives and controllers can see all of the data so that any one drive or place doesn't cause it to be completely lost.

You could back up a Synology NAS to another NAS, however that might get a tad cost-prohibitive, but it's not unheard of. Here's the overview from their Knowledge Base if you're interested. Unless you're storing massive amounts of data, it's probably a bit more common to backup a NAS to an external USB drive. One of the strongest points of Synology is how easy-to-use their DiskStation Manager (DSM) is. The overview linked above explains how to conveniently set automated backups, scheduling, notifications, etc. It's pretty "set it and forget it".

 

[Undesirable]

Well I'm happy with Raid-1, etc, being called a synchronised backup. It is a sort of "live" mirror / clone after all, and if one drive fails then all you do is replace that drive to clone it again. In fact it's even more convenient than a traditional backup.

 

[Selekt0r]

Well I'm happy with Raid-1, etc, being called a synchronised backup. It is a sort of "live" mirror / clone after all, and if one drive fails then all you do is replace that drive to clone it again. In fact it's even more convenient than a traditional backup.

Don't forget about a proper backup with versioning as well. RAID-1 (or any RAID for that matter) won't help you if you accidentally delete a file, accidentally overwrite it with a corrupt/incorrect version, or (god forbid) are subject to a crypto-ransomware where all of your files get encrypted.

 

[Undesirable]

Don't forget about a proper backup with versioning as well. RAID-1 (or any RAID for that matter) won't help you if you accidentally delete a file, accidentally overwrite it with a corrupt/incorrect version, or (god forbid) are subject to a crypto-ransomware where all of your files get encrypted.

No, but I'm willing to take that risk. I have a network recycling bin, have never accidentally overwritten an important file as far as I can remember, have never been infected with Ransomware and don't expect to be as I have an anti-malware solution installed. Haven't had a virus that made it to Root for 18 years or so, but I did get caught out by Bitcoin mining malware once.

 

[Armageus]

Well I'm happy with Raid-1, etc, being called a synchronised backup. It is a sort of "live" mirror / clone after all, and if one drive fails then all you do is replace that drive to clone it again. In fact it's even more convenient than a traditional backup.

It's not a backup though.

If you are unlucky enough to get a virus, have the raid controller/nas fail, have corrupt data copied from 1 drive to the other, or even accidentally delete a file - then you still have no way of recovering your data.

As above - a backup needs to be physically separate (a 2nd NAS isn't always a good option as viruses/ransomware could take out both if on the same network). USB drives are ideal as you can remove them (making them inaccessible to viruses/ransomware), and can physically move them off site if needed.

No, but I'm willing to take that risk. I have a network recycling bin, have never accidentally overwritten an important file as far as I can remember, have never been infected with Ransomware and don't expect to be as I have an anti-malware solution installed.

Hopefully it's not irreplaceable data then, as it's naive to think that any anti-malware solution can protect against every new and emerging threat (or any of the other circumstances mentioned above)

 

[Undesirable]

It's not a backup though.

If one hard drive dies, then there is, for all intents and purposes, a backup to rebuild from. And it's automagic.

As above - a backup needs to be physically separate (a 2nd NAS isn't always a good option as viruses/ransomware could take out both if on the same network). USB drives are ideal as you can remove them (making them inaccessible to viruses/ransomware), and can physically move them off site if needed.

Okay, this might appease you slightly. Anything that's absolutely critical to me is stored in a single 4GB encrypted container, including the browser I'm typing from now. I keep a few copies of this backed up; like the kind of backup you're talking about. 99% of my data isn't backed up by your definition of the phrase. The reason being I'm not willing to spend any more hundreds of pounds on 10TB of HDD space and I'm not willing to put them on any cloud storage whatsoever.

Hopefully it's not irreplaceable data then, as it's naive to think that any anti-malware solution can protect against every new and emerging threat (or any of the other circumstances mentioned above)

I protect myself from every emerging threat with sensible browsing and email habits. I did get caught out by Bitcoin mining malware fairly recently, but that was because it was really potentially unwanted software so it slipped past the protection I had at the time. I used to think I was naiive and that one day my luck would run out, but then 18 years passed (since I had a serious virus) and my confidence has swelled to bursting point. Even 18 years ago I didn't lose anything important because I had the resourcefulness to research the virus online and fix the master boot record.

 

[Armageus]

If one hard drive dies, then there is, for all intents and purposes, a backup to rebuild from. And it's automagic.

Having been on the receiving end of (admittedly older) RAID1 arrays that have "automagically" copied bad data from 1 disk to the other and left me with 2 bad drives - then no, it isn't a backup you can 100% guarantee to rebuild from.

Okay, this might appease you slightly. Anything that's absolutely critical to me is stored in a single 4GB encrypted container, including the browser I'm typing from now. I keep a few copies of this backed up; like the kind of backup you're talking about. 99% of my data isn't backed up by your definition of the phrase. The reason being I'm not willing to spend any more hundreds of pounds on 10TB of HDD space and I'm not willing to put them on any cloud storage whatsoever.

Which is absolutely fine. At the end of the day only you know what your data is worth to you, and what it would mean to lose it.

For most people having backups of e.g. DVD/Bluray rips that can be be redone isn't worth the space/expense. However, having multiple backups of irreplaceable family photos etc is a completely different matter (and is an issue when people believe that a NAS/RAID instantly offers them protection/backup of such data).

 

[Undesirable]

Having been on the receiving end of (admittedly older) RAID1 arrays that have "automagically" copied bad data from 1 disk to the other and left me with 2 bad drives - then no, it isn't a backup you can 100% guarantee to rebuild from.

The price of high-capacity HDDs forces me to place all my faith in my NAS RAID-1 array. I already paid enough for the NAS + drives. Absolutely ridiculous! Mind you, I'd like to have a QNAP Ryzen NAS, but have you seen the prices of those? Apparently they're "business class" NAS only and thus command a ridiculous overinflated price over what you would pay for an entire separate Ryzen computer.

 

[Bugbait]

As others have stated the best onsite backup for a NAS is copy the data to another, physically separate device. I have a 30TB primary NAS (secondary PC really) that is considered online, i.e. Always available, permanently connected to a SurgeX unit and hardwired to the LAN. I occasionally, about once a month back it up using differential software (GoodSync) to a secondary NAS (Thecus 7700ProV2) that is in the same room but offline, i.e. Only connected to power and the LAN during a backup. This protects from power damage (lighting, etc.), hardware and software failures on either device.

However, it won't protect from fire and other property damaging events. For this, I backup the critical information (documents, photos, etc.) to the Cloud.

 

[Undesirable]

I'd rather lose every single byte of my data than resort to backing up to the cloud. Except save game data, I don't mind keeping that on Google Drive.

30TB of storage costs a small fortune in my eyes; another 30TB on top of that is a literal fortune.

 

[Bugbait]

I never claimed it was cheap . However, if you spend the money to have 30TB of storage without leaving more for backing it up, that would be worse IMO. I priced up storing 30TB and it really wasn't worth it. In the long term I'd be better off setting up a third NAS at my sister's or parent's place, the latter if I wanted geographically remote backup for extra safety (overkill!).

 

[Armageus]

Mind you, I'd like to have a QNAP Ryzen NAS, but have you seen the prices of those? Apparently they're "business class" NAS only and thus command a ridiculous overinflated price over what you would pay for an entire separate Ryzen computer.

Why would you need a Ryzen powered NAS? In my eyes they are a niche Small business solution to running a few Virtual Machines, without fully investing in servers etc.

I'd rather lose every single byte of my data than resort to backing up to the cloud.

Seems an odd view to have - whilst there is some data I wouldn't want to put on the cloud, having an additional copy or irreplaceable files in case my house burnt down etc is ideal for most. If you're worried about privacy, then there are encrypted services, or nothing stopping you encrypting the files yourself before uploading etc.

 

[Undesirable]

Why would you need a Ryzen powered NAS? In my eyes they are a niche Small business solution to running a few Virtual Machines, without fully investing in servers etc.

I don't need a 16 core Threadripper, but I purchased one because I thought they were good value for what I would be getting versus Intel. Now I'm happily running 4 GHz at 1.26V and not even considering Ryzen 2.

Those new Ryzen NAS have 2.5 inch bays as standard on top of the 3.5 inch bays, which looks appealing. Of course they should be standard already, but ho hum.

 

[Selekt0r]

I'd rather lose every single byte of my data than resort to backing up to the cloud.

What a strange comment. I agree that backing up all your personal/private files without any encryption would be foolish, but there are plenty of cloud backup options which ensure that everything is very securely encrypted with a private key which only you hold before it ever leaves your PC/server.

 

[Undesirable]

If there's verifiable proof that the cloud company concerned don't have a backdoor then perhaps it is a viable solution. I doubt there is proof enough to satisfy me though.

My main point is I know for a fact that anything stored on my mechanical drives is physically "there" in the same room as me (call me old fashioned). To tell the truth I haven't seriously looked into cloud storage for years now.

 

[Selekt0r]

If there's verifiable proof that the cloud company concerned don't have a backdoor then perhaps it is a viable solution. I doubt there is proof enough to satisfy me though.

My main point is I know for a fact that anything stored on my mechanical drives is physically "there" in the same room as me (call me old fashioned). To tell the truth I haven't seriously looked into cloud storage for years now.

I actually don't care (from a security perspective at least) whether the cloud provider has a backdoor/hack - everything I backup online is encrypted locally using a personal key before it every leaves my server.