Backups & Redundancy advice

eyemessiah

eyemessiah

eyemessiah

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10 May 2004
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As I mentioned in my other thread I'm just recovering from a HDD death and thinking about ways to avoid data loss in the future.

I do a lot of video work so I have GBs & GBs of data and its become sort of impractical to backup onto DVDRs. What are my other options? What kind of media do people back stuff up on these days? Raid is appealing, but in practice I'd rather not have a stack of 3 or more HDDs in my desktop for heat & power consumption reasons.

What do you guys do?

thanks,
 
Go for a fileserver. Can get some good deals on low power components and gives you more options than a NAS box. Look at software RAID 5, can be done very easily under XP or using Linux.
 
Just remember that RAID isn't backup.

I backup to HD, which I hotplug, mirror using SyncBackPro, then remove.
 
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I use a Sharkoon QuickPort Pro* (connected via ESATA rather than USB) plus a number of 250GB bare drives. I just drop a drive into the QuickPort then use Acronis True Image Home to make an image of the PC's internal drive. I have six drives and backup once a month so I have six months' backups. I also use a different program to make differential backups to DVD/RW twice a week. It's up to you to work out how many drives you think you need and how often you need to make an image.

You should also be using RAID1 in the PC to protect against single disk failure.

*You could use one of these if you prefer a neater, internal solution but OCUK don't stock 'em.
 
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I'm not a backup specialist but I have a few ideas that I can share! :o

Raid-1 (require two big mama disks) Seems quite popular although a little expensive, Raid-1 IMO is more suited to keeping a system running in event of disk failure i.e a computer set-up in a busy shop/bank will stay productive and online if/when a single disk fails. It's a bit excessive for regular data but if you have the spare cash it won't hurt. The downside of Raid-1 is that if a file or folder gets deleted by mistake it's gone.

Automated Daily Backups (require two big mama disks) This seems like a better solution for most users, you use one big disk as My Documents and the second big disk for backups (Acronis, Ghost whatever your preference). Everyday at a certain time the system will backup all the data from My Documents to the spare disk. The advantage here over Raid-1 is that should some files get deleted you are able to retrieve them from your backup disk, the disadvantage is of course if the main system disk goes down the computer will stop working until you get hands-on with it and pop in a new disk and restore the backup.

I think having a spare disk and dailiy backups is the best scenario for most users here that don't need to keep a machine online 24/7 you get the protection of Data redundancy that RAID-1 offers combined with the ability to restore missing/deleted/virused files.
 
i have..

internal data drive.
robocopy int1 to ext1
robocopy ext1 to ext2

then once a month, robocopy ext2 to raid3 array at my mum's
 
So if you are running two disk system anyway, where one disk is your backup then what would be the disadvantage of switching to Raid 1? CPU overhead?

I'm not too worried about recovering from accidental deletions etc, although that obviously is a plus, I'm mainly concerned about preserving data in the case of hardware meltdown. I'm also not to worried about up-time.

I suppose backing up to an external HDD makes a lot of sense in case of PSU explosions, lighting, alien attacks e.t.c.
 
OK, lets say I'm going to backup essential data to an external repository, say a couple of 1.5 TB HDDs in an esata caddy\NAS of some sort. A full blown fileserver is probably excessive for my needs, but tempting all the same!

Does it make more sense to backup once to each ext HDD, like Bledd suggests i.e. int-ext1, ext1-ext2, or would it be better to have the external drives in a Raid 1 configuration. Or is it '6 and half dozen'?

As I say up-time isn't too much of a worry, I'd run the OS on a "disposable" drive and just backup the data I need to preserve. Raid 1 certainly seems slightly more convenient, and backing up to an external array seems to give me the bonus of recovering from accidental deletions. Although I suppose if the controller in the caddy\NAS box fails the whole array is lost until I can get another identical unit?

EDIT: Ok I realise I am lumping two types of "backing up" in together. 1) Making a second copy of data that is already in my main drive, and 2) storing data that I don't have elsewhere in a safe place.

Bearing that in mind I suppose two ext drives in a non-raid config makes more sense, because for stuff that I need to "put to bed" in a safe place I can copy it to both drives, and for stuff I that is in use that I just want a quick second copy of I can just copy it to one drive.

One last thing: How reliable are the caddy\NAS box solutions themselves? I'm not so worried about the unit failing if the drives are plain SATA because the data will still be retrievable, what I worry about is a cheap power adapter or something toasting both the drives in one sad accident and me losing the data that I have "put to bed" the external box.

I don't worry about my high end PC PSU zapping my drives, but I might not be so confident in a little plastic box with a power adapter plugged into the wall. Is this worth worrying about?

Maybe I should hedge my bets and have: 1 main drive in my PC, 1 extra "backup" drive in my PC and one more backup drive stored externaly. "In-use" stuff just gets copied to the external drive, and stuff that I want to store "for good" gets copied to both.

thanks again,
 
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eyemessiah said:
So if you are running two disk system anyway, where one disk is your backup then what would be the disadvantage of switching to Raid 1? CPU overhead?
Click to expand...

just being able to quickly take my 2nd external drive around to a mate's house / mums house etc

not much planning went into it, i just want a no hassle backup plan

i robocopy..

music
photos
videos
steam

i don't keep any other documents etc
 
eyemessiah said:
So if you are running two disk system anyway, where one disk is your backup then what would be the disadvantage of switching to Raid 1? CPU overhead?QUOTE]

None if its like this:



http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=466


http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=410



The Raid is done at the Caddy so its simply 1x USB or 1x ESATA to your PC.

1) Caddy dies, take HDD's and your DATA is there. :)

2) 1 of HDD's dies, other HDD has copy of it, DATA is there. :)
Click to expand...
 
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helmutcheese said:
Obv your the Clueless one. :rolleyes:

I ain't even gonna explain why Raid1 is safer because you do not deserve any education after your above TOSH.
Click to expand...

Raid 1 is not a backup though is it ? If you were to accidentally delete a file just becuase you have 2 drives in raid 1 doesn't mean you can recover those files. If you had 2 drives in raid 1 and a 3rd drive as a daily backup you could at least recover the file - Its a backup of the data. Raid 1 is simply a mirror and offers resilience.
 
BeaumonT said:
Raid 1 is not a backup though is it ? If you were to accidentally delete a file just becuase you have 2 drives in raid 1 doesn't mean you can recover those files. If you had 2 drives in raid 1 and a 3rd drive as a daily backup you could at least recover the file - Its a backup of the data. Raid 1 is simply a mirror and offers resilience.
Click to expand...

The guy was clueless and accuses other of being so, someone running a External Raid 1 HDD is safer than someone not running a Backup External HDD or someone running a normal back up External Single HDD.

WTF is a back up in that case, delete a file from your Single HDD by mistake and its a gone.

Delete a file from your Backup HDD and nuke your PC's HDD and when you go to backup the file is not on Backup HDD.

There is only so far you can go without getting crazy and anal and I have had a backup HDD die so Raid 1 is a good idea.

That's all ignoring the fact its very easy to undelete a file or even recover a messed up HDD.
 
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^that's why i use my method, my method is fine for an ever expanding data set.

if i wanted to clear out files (with media you generally don't) then it'd be harder to do
 
bledd. said:
^that's why i use my method, my method is fine for an ever expanding data set.

if i wanted to clear out files (with media you generally don't) then it'd be harder to do
Click to expand...


I did the same but the My Book died (as you know I got it all back using a freezer).

It prob will never happen again as I now have a Raid 1 My Book (courteously of WD for my hastle with RMA etc).

I have 3 lifelines before I loose data now, 4 if you inc my main PC's HDD.

1) Caddy dies, take HDD's and your DATA is there.

2) 1 of HDD's dies, other HDD has copy of it, DATA is there (Both HDD would need die).
 
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It should also be said that it isn't just accidental deletions that can cause a raid 1 array to fail, a power spike, raid controller problem, spilt water, etc, etc could all result in both drives being unavailable.

For my usage, I find it better to have two separate external drives that I connect and sync to from the internal. Sync one the first week, the other the second week. I also keep an encrypted backup of my critical files (which are much smaller and can fit on an old 40GB drive) round a friends house.

Obviously you are 'at risk' from when you create the files till when you back them up. Raid 1 can be useful for minimising this risk on the host. It really depends on what risks you are willing to take/not take with your data.
 
Less risk that 1 HDD for that matter.

I have read/heard all the TOSH on Raid enough to make me ill.

I have a primary Raid 0 set up, have done for 3-4 years, I crash my PC all the time due to OC'ing to far during testing, I have had a power outage and never ever lost a Windows install due to it.

Backing up a PC to a external HDD as I did is fine until you get caught mid format and the main PC is a clean install with none of your stuff on it yet and the external dies.

AGAIN, I am now safer than that situation as the external would need both HDD's in it to die, and on top of that its user serviceable, the lid flips up for HDD removal/swap.

I think some peeps here don't have a clue what Raid is about or can do.
 
helmutcheese said:
Backing up a PC to a external HDD as I did is fine until you get caught mid format and the main PC is a clean install with none of your stuff on it yet and the external dies.
Click to expand...

that's why we're saying to use two..

anyway, plenty of good advice in this thread already, in both raid and not raid
 
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