Bad delay through midi keyboard?

Trifid · 10 Nov 2011 at 19:16

Hello.

I have recently purchased a M-Audio Sono 61 keyboard which I am planning to use with a notation program such as Sibelius. However I have a problem where there is a really bad delay when using midi. The below video shows you what I mean:

When I first load up Finale and play there is minimal delay, I then select VST and select the piano stave and get next to no delay. I then go back to midi and the latency is unplayable (can play 2 notes before the first sounds). This is the same in Sibelius (although I haven't worked out how to switch between midi and VST like the above video).

My soundcard is a M-audio 2496 and I'm connecting the keyboard through USB and using the latest drivers.

I've tried the keyboard on another computer for the same result. I've not tried listening to just the keyboard as I don't have suitable headphones (need 1/4" jacks). Ultimately I will be using VSTs with Garritan Personal Orchestra but don't wish to spend a fortune on software and risk getting the same result.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Thanks.

Attu90 · 10 Nov 2011 at 21:16

Download asio4all drivers, they should sort out the problem.

Its quiote a common problem and I had the same problem with my Guitar through my computer via USB, I found asio4all a bit tricky to set up but managed to get it to work.

Trifid · 10 Nov 2011 at 21:55

My soundcard comes with proper ASIOv2 drivers (which I was using). However I tried asio4all and it is still the same.

helmet · 11 Nov 2011 at 01:07

Hey,

what are your CPU and HD specs?
Given that it falls with the VST it seems to be process related.
Is the install of VSTs on a different disk from the main apps/OS?

What is your current latency with and without VST loaded?
Have you tried adjusting the buffer size, IIRC done via the software?

Cheers

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?9512-Latency-problem-with-Audiophile-2496

www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec00/arti...sg=AFQjCNFWjHBgp7uFUR2AUyeHRWgg6qPT5g&cad=rja

Q How do I switch off the time delay when playing my VST Instrument in real time?

Sadly, this is not an option -- if you hear an obvious gap between pressing a note on an external MIDI keyboard and hearing any sound on a VST Instrument then you are suffering from the latency of your soundcard drivers (see the feature on latency in SOS April '99 for more details). For the delay to be small enough to be unnoticeable you'll need a latency of 20mS or less, and for this you really need to be running ASIO or EASI drivers. If your soundcard doesn't provide these as an option then PC owners may still get very acceptable performance using DirectX drivers, although you can't normally record audio when using these.

Thankfully, latency only affects you when recording, so one option for those suffering from a slow real-time response is to play in your MIDI tracks using a hardware synth, so that you can perform properly, and then to direct the output of the track to your VST Instrument once you have finished recording. It may not be ideal, but it works.
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Cheers

Trifid · 11 Nov 2011 at 07:16

CPU is an Intel i7 920, HDD is a Samsung 1TB 7200rpm, and it is the VST instruments that are builtm into the demo vesions of both Sibelius and Finale, installed on C.

The buffer size makes no noticeable difference compared when on the lowest setting.

I thought VST was OK based on my video (well it sounds horrid but the response from pressing a note is instantaneous)?

Trifid · 11 Nov 2011 at 21:04

Would using a midi cable instead of USB solve the problem? I have midi IO on my PCI soundcard.

arty · 11 Nov 2011 at 21:52

Trifid said:
Would using a midi cable instead of USB solve the problem? I have midi IO on my PCI soundcard.

Almost certainly

Give it a try at least. I've often found USB MIDI to be a little flaky compared to 'proper' MIDI, for some reason. No idea why on modern computers where the CPU overheads of USB should be proportionally tiny.

arty

visibleman · 11 Nov 2011 at 22:24

# Have you got latest drivers for both the Sono 61 and 2496?
# Changing the ASIO buffer size in the M-Audio control panel should make a noticeable difference (certainly been the case with everything from Soundblaster cards to Protools HD/Prism rigs i've used) to the latency; i'm guessing it's set fairly low (128/256ms etc) though?
# When you tried it on another computer, were you using Sibelius/Finale again? Did you use the same audio interface as well?
# Have you tried other software (perhaps a DAW like Cubase/Live/Protools, even FLStudio) outside of Finale and Sibelius? Or even standlone plugins like Akoustik/N.I Komplete package etc?
# Open up Resource Monitor and see if the CPU/Disk IO/Memory is being heavily taxed, although usually it'd result it 'stuttering' sound rather than delayed latency.

It's worth trying the Midi output as that would rule out dodgy Sono drivers but I suspect it's either likely dodgy 2496 drivers, in which case try older or beta drivers (likewise with Sono), or there is a problem with the Sibelius/Finale trials you're running, could rule that out testing Cubase/Live etc.
I'd also have a quick scout in your device manager and just make sure everything is installed correctly.

Edit - It's been a while since i've used Sibelius but i'm sure there is an auto latency correction option in one of the menus, make sure that is disabled.

Trifid · 12 Nov 2011 at 10:22

I'll see if I can pick up a MIDI cable today.

visibleman said:
# Have you got latest drivers for both the Sono 61 and 2496?

Yes, there is only one set of drivers for the sound card. but latest keyboard drivers from the website.

visibleman said:
# Changing the ASIO buffer size in the M-Audio control panel should make a noticeable difference (certainly been the case with everything from Soundblaster cards to Protools HD/Prism rigs i've used) to the latency; i'm guessing it's set fairly low (128/256ms etc) though?

I've tried the lowest and highest and everything between, they are all unplayable.

visibleman said:
# When you tried it on another computer, were you using Sibelius/Finale again? Did you use the same audio interface as well?

I was using Sibelius but it was using the integrated soundcard in the laptop.

visibleman said:
# Have you tried other software (perhaps a DAW like Cubase/Live/Protools, even FLStudio) outside of Finale and Sibelius? Or even standlone plugins like Akoustik/N.I Komplete package etc?

I've tried Ableton Live Lite 7 and the drum beats when using ASIO are instantaneous. These are obviously VSTs being played back to me through the computer, which I'd have thought would be more demanding than inbuilt midi sounds from the keyboard?

visibleman said:
# Open up Resource Monitor and see if the CPU/Disk IO/Memory is being heavily taxed, although usually it'd result it 'stuttering' sound rather than delayed latency.

They barely registering any load.

visibleman said:
I'd also have a quick scout in your device manager and just make sure everything is installed correctly.

Just some VMware network adapters saying they have been disabled (which I did).

visibleman said:
Edit - It's been a while since i've used Sibelius but i'm sure there is an auto latency correction option in one of the menus, make sure that is disabled.

I can't find anything about this?

Thanks.