Bans for Diving Backed by FIFA

[jakeke]

so i take it that its okay that lampards goal didnt count against germany in the world cup? because they won by more than 1?

I'm not bitter in the least as Germany were by far the better side and deserved to go through, they were always going to win that game and it would have been a shame for football had England gone through. Much the same with Arsenal and Celtic tbf

Not to mention there was contact and it was a terrible decision by Boruc. I'm similarly not bitter about the Rooney one against Arsenal where he was half way down before he reached Almunia, and that was a much, much closer game, I put it down to being part of the game, and again, a truly atrocious decision by Almunia in that case where he probably deserved to be punished for being such a dunce

 

[Psycho Sonny]

lol @ the bitter Celtic fans and Eduardo's dive which was actually proven by a panel of experts that contact was made and that it wasn't a dive at all... Either way we were still winning, heavily on aggregate, and take the penalty away and we'd still have won by a fair margin.

Anyway, I think that if a referee interprets a player as diving then he should get sin binned for 10 minutes along with a yellow card, that will make him think twice about doing it, not only does he get punished with a card and has to play it safe for the rest of the game, but he's also letting the rest of his team suffer a disadvantage as a direct result of his actions.

sin bins? what now? that will never ever happen.

if you dive inside the box, it should be a straight red, outside and its a yellow.

 

[Gzero]

You guys are assuming that the ref, or any of the other officials will "see" it.

Not implying that the ref has been paid, but when two officials miss something rather obvious, makes you wonder how they got there.

I'm not sure that getting ex footballers to ref games either, you've heard their opinions at half time etc (looking at you Andy T) and they seem soo far biased that you wonder what game were they watching?

 

[Tummy]

meh.

If a player dives, the ref should book them every single time.

If a player dives and the ref doesn't see it, oh well.

I'd much rather them clamp down on the **** players get away with at corners then diving.

 

[HangTime]

If it happens in an important match, what incentive is there not to dive? Say the title is effectively decidable between 2 sides 2 games from the end of the season. One side has a very easy remaining pair of games, and so to win the title decider, he cheats, gets caught and is suspended. But by doing this he effectively wins the league or at the very least hands his team a massive advantage. What incentive is there to stop him simulating?

Or say a player towards the end of a cup final? That is if caught, he merely misses a few first round ties next year

It's still better than the situation we have at the moment. Currently if the officials don't see the dive, you get away it. Whereas with video evidence used to support diving bans, you'd not only have to hoodwink the ref, you'd also have to avoid getting found out by camera to avoid getting a ban which currently you simply would not have gotten. Obviously in an ideal world the ref would see everything and take action there and then, but we don't live in an ideal world.

Retrospective action is a fundamental part of our legal system, we don't just let people off because they got away with a crime at the time, even though the punishment may be of little comfort to the victim after the event.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

sin bins? what now? that will never ever happen.

if you dive inside the box, it should be a straight red, outside and its a yellow.

Why would a sin bin never happen? It doesn't slow the game down which is one of the points that is made when someone suggests a diving deterrent. Also, stop posting in such a patronising way, you pleb.

 

[Nor]

lol @ the bitter Celtic fans and Eduardo's dive which was actually proven by a panel of experts that contact was made and that it wasn't a dive at all... Either way we were still winning, heavily on aggregate, and take the penalty away and we'd still have won by a fair margin.

I think that post encapsulates the reason why diving will never be stamped out - that there will be a queue of people willing to say saying black is white because they have a vested interest.

The only hope is that FIFA have a real determination to make a difference, but FIFA has never really been about that. They are about keeping the rich clubs happy and I'll predict it'll be another half-hearted attempt which will fall by the wayside as soon as they actually have to make a decision.

 

[Greenlizard0]

It's still better than the situation we have at the moment. Currently if the officials don't see the dive, you get away it. Whereas with video evidence used to support diving bans, you'd not only have to hoodwink the ref, you'd also have to avoid getting found out by camera to avoid getting a ban which currently you simply would not have gotten. Obviously in an ideal world the ref would see everything and take action there and then, but we don't live in an ideal world.

Retrospective action is a fundamental part of our legal system, we don't just let people off because they got away with a crime at the time, even though the punishment may be of little comfort to the victim after the event.

Yes I agree that retrospective action is important, my point is, FIFA's new rules are going to do nothing for the game because there are too many factors that could confuse things, and as said, there are situations where a player would be prepared to do the time by committing a crime....if that makes any sense.

How should the problem of simulation be solved? I don't know, I'm afraid I can't really offer one. There is no real solution for this and the new rule is largely for show.

 

[HangTime]

Yeah but what I'm getting at is that surely it's better for a player to commit the crime and do the time, than commit the crime and not do the time as currently happens?

I don't think it will do nothing, I think you will still get some diving especially around the penalty box but once players start getting banned I'm sure it will start to cut down on diving elsewhere on the pitch. The reward of potentially winning a freekick will arguably be outweighed by the much increased risk of getting punished, i.e. missing future matches. Same as how nowadays in televised matches you rarely see serious off the ball incidents, yes they still happen, but nowhere near as much as in the old days.

 

[mmj_uk]

I'd like to see them punish anyone who is already falling prior to contact being made but I can't see them being that strict, they'll probably just punish the blatently bad ones that nobody is fooled by. The players who have mastered the art of diving will still get away with it.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I think that post encapsulates the reason why diving will never be stamped out - that there will be a queue of people willing to say saying black is white because they have a vested interest.

The only hope is that FIFA have a real determination to make a difference, but FIFA has never really been about that. They are about keeping the rich clubs happy and I'll predict it'll be another half-hearted attempt which will fall by the wayside as soon as they actually have to make a decision.

Cry me a river. Eduardo didn't dive so I don't see your point.

 

[Nor]

Cry me a river. Eduardo didn't dive so I don't see your point.

You just made my point - that it's nigh on impossible to remove diving because even the most blatant of dives will have people queuing up to argue it's not.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

You just made my point - that it's nigh on impossible to remove diving because even the most blatant of dives will have people queuing up to argue it's not.

I still don't understand if you're saying that you agree the Eduardo incident wasn't a dive, yet the Celtic fans / Scottish FA / whoever all say it was.

It was proven by a panel who viewed the incident many times along with apparent experts in body language, positioning et cetera that there was no dive and that Boruc made contact. I have to agree with what someone else said further up in the thread as well. That I hold no grudge or hard feelings against Rooney for example, who in a much tighter game started going down before Almunia had touched him, it was Almunia's fault for letting Rooney get in a position like that, if he'd have stayed between the sticks then no penalty would have been awarded.

This isn't the first time Celtic have complained about being cheated against either, they are either the most unlucky team ever or just a bunch of whining pansies. Bad calls get made in every game, no doubt if you ask a Celtic fan it was probably that incident which led to them not qualifying for Champions League football that year, never mind the other 2, 3 and 4 goals I believe it was on aggregate.

Eduardo was given a two match European ban, I'm fairly sure that if the panel of experts couldn't have proven that contact was made then the ban would have been followed through with, but the appeal was made and was successful, end of story, there is no grey area it simply wasn't a dive.

 

[Weebull]

He's not talking specifics, clearly.

He's just saying that if you introduce retrospective punishment properly, it could open a whole can of worms as to whether a dive really was a dive or not. Short of adding full body contact sensors or something silly, it would be impossible to prove many of them for certain. Very few dives have absolutely no visible contact whatsoever.

I think he makes a fair point.

 

[Greenlizard0]

I hadn't realised it was proved otherwise, I shall remember that. Got a source at all?

Looks like when fans of other teams want to have a dig at 'cheating' Arsenal they'll have to go back to Pires against Spurs again.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I hadn't realised it was proved otherwise, I shall remember that. Got a source at all?

Looks like when fans of other teams want to have a dig at 'cheating' Arsenal they'll have to go back to Pires against Spurs again.

I'll have a look for you, they lifted the two match ban as apparently the appeal included expert analysis of the footage which concluded there was contact.

How can he not be talking about specifics when he directly replied to my comment only? Then went on to say maybe in not so many words that it's people like me who's judgment is clouded due to having some ties to one or the other club. At the time I was one of the people saying he should be suitably punished if it was a dive, go take a look through the thread if it's still here, I said it several times, I'm not a blind, biased fan I can see right and wrong on both sides so that particular posters opinion is flawed.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=676166&sec=uefachampionsleague&cc=5739

Specifically where it says that UEFA are not satisfied that the referee was deceived into giving the penalty.

 

[Weebull]

I'm not going to claim to speak for Nor, but at no point has he actually discussed the Eduardo incident, which is why I assumed he was talking generally. He's just used your response as an example of why nothing is easily black or white.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why all the Arsenal fans here have made this into an Us vs Celtic slanging match, when the only person who brought it up was Psycho Sonny, and as far as I'm aware, he's not a Celtic fan.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I'm not going to claim to speak for Nor, but at no point has he actually discussed the Eduardo incident, which is why I assumed he was talking generally. He's just used your response as an example of why nothing is easily black or white.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why all the Arsenal fans here have made this into an Us vs Celtic slanging match, when the only person who brought it up was Psycho Sonny, and as far as I'm aware, he's not a Celtic fan.

You can't not bring up the Eduardo incident as an example when it's been a big talking point of the subject in the past few years.

 

[Weebull]

That's a rather different response from your initial responses of:

lol @ the bitter Celtic fans

Cry me a river. Eduardo didn't dive so I don't see your point.

Which would seem to indicate you don't think the subject is worth further discussion?

Again though, what does the specifics on one particular case, and whether Eduardo did or did not actually dive, have to do with the issue of diving and punishment as a whole?

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I can't remember many other occasions, if any, where a player was punished after the match for diving. The point he was trying to make was that fans are just blindly loyal to their clubs whatever happens, one saying black the other white, which isn't the case at all. Get off my back?