Barcelona doping claims

FeFiDoh · 21 Mar 2011 at 20:23

This all seemed very quiet here and the first I heard of any of this was in the newspaper today.

I know theres a La Liga thread but its an interesting subject what with Kolo Toure recently as well.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...Spanish-giants-torn-apart-by-dope-claims.html

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21032011/58/la-liga-real-owe-apology-doping-claim.html

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277...ng-surprise-anti-doping-tests-on-10-barcelona

Strange turn of events, a high board member leaking information about dodgy doctors working at Barcelona and possible drug use.

They deny all knowledge of it and for the second time within one month 10 Barcelona players will be tested for drugs!

Is this just a case of someone trying to taint the image of Barcelona? Read in the paper with all that money Perez had spent at the club they are still behind Barcelona and don't seem able to compete with them yet.

nydryl · 21 Mar 2011 at 20:30

Barcelona are far from clean cut total football team they are painted as but I doubt there is anything dodgy going on with regards to doping. Wouldn't be surprised at all if it is just a plan to try and unsettle Barca on the run in.

Greenlizard0 · 21 Mar 2011 at 20:39

There are quite a lot of issues involved.

Real with all their spending, getting who they believe is the best manager in the world still aren't a tad close to competing with Barcelona, or should I say they will never be able to buy Messi. Add the fact that there isn't another player out there that they can buy, so as I mentioned in the other thread a few days ago they will be behind Barca for a few years at least.

There's a massively long, political rivalry with the region that is embodied within football. Real still represent Spain, and Barca still represent the 'want to be' autonomous Catalan region.

It'd be quite tin foil hat of me to say it - but there's a lot of reasons why somebody would be jealous of Barca's success, and easily predictable future success.

However, as an Arsenal fan this of course delights me. Their off the field garbage they spout to the press has always been laughable, e.g. about Cesc. On the pitch I have seen them plenty of times and we've played them 4 times in 2 years. For all the wonderful football, they're a very dirty, simulating and card waving side. And yes, I still will have said that had we beaten them 4 times instead of losing 2, drawing 1 and winning 1.

mufcmark · 21 Mar 2011 at 20:45

Although it's unlikely that they are involved in doping, the fact they play week in week out with the same 11 players( I know Puyol is injured) basically does raise suspicions but its most likely jealously is the main cause for these claims.

These claims aren't aimed entirely at Barca and I heard from someone that they think the Valencia teams that won la liga were involved in doping.

Biz.Kid09 · 21 Mar 2011 at 20:48

IIRC Real Madrid are 'owned' by the king of Spain?
So his influence + the newspapers in Spain eg Marca would especially want to disrupt Barca. Would be very very surprised if anything came out of it although saying that Kolo Toure was a massive surprise.

FeFiDoh · 21 Mar 2011 at 20:59

Yeah Valencia where also involved in the allegations as well

It's quite a nasty situation, Del Bosque wasn't happy with the situation as there was 6 Barcelona players in the world cup winning team.

Would be a massive blow for Spain if anything was found to be out of order as much for Barcelona.

Greenlizard0 · 21 Mar 2011 at 21:44

Accusations and the bitter reasons behind them, the Toure thread revealed that perhaps it's actually quite a widespread problem. Hearsay had it that e.g. Denilson's mystery illness was attributed to him having an impending test.

MURDEROUS G · 21 Mar 2011 at 22:37

Some sketchy numbers that I recall from discussing this elsewhere: the rate of life-endangering heart defects amongst young people in the average population is something extremely small like 1 per several hundred thousand* - but among players of Spanish football, a tiny group of people by comparison, there have been something like a dozen cases where young players have either died or retired because of life-threatening heart problems in the last ~5 years.

That's a gigantic statistical anomaly and should certainly raise eyebrows as the link between performance enhancing drugs and heart issues is well known. I'm not pointing fingers at Barca specifically (I don't favour any Spanish side in particular), and hell I'm not even really against doping in sports to be honest, but imo given the numbers it's much, much more likely that this is going on than that it isn't. The whole Operación Puerto thing where a huge swathe of footballers were implicated but then never investigated further is also kinda dubious.

*can't remember the exact figure, correct me if this is wildly wrong

Greenlizard0 · 21 Mar 2011 at 22:57

Operación Puerto meant a few cyclists were banned, but most cleared.

Edit - however apparently the doctor involved in all of this has come out and said: "If I would talk, the Spanish football team would be stripped of the 2010 World Cup."

However the source of that is some Belgian newspaper, whose equivalent English version may well be anything from The Times to The Sun.

http://www.sudpresse.be/sports/foot...re-la-coupe-du-monde-a-l-espagne-831186.shtml

MURDEROUS G · 21 Mar 2011 at 23:25

Greenlizard0 said:
Operación Puerto meant a few cyclists were banned, but most cleared.

Edit - however apparently the doctor involved in all of this has come out and said: "If I would talk, the Spanish football team would be stripped of the 2010 World Cup."

However the source of that is some Belgian newspaper, whose equivalent English version may well be anything from The Times to The Sun.

http://www.sudpresse.be/sports/foot...re-la-coupe-du-monde-a-l-espagne-831186.shtml

Yeah, I' m aware of all that (edit: that sounds kinda brusque, I'm not trying to be dismissive - I agree with you that this is not solid proof which is what you're pointing out). What became public knowledge is that they were initially investigating cyclists, and when the operation was over, they had implicated 200 sportsmen, of whom only 50 were cyclists. Sepp Blatter said he was interested in seeing the files, and then that was the last we heard of it. I'm not presenting it of proof of anything, because it isn't.

NB: it wasn't just some rando Belgian newspaper that reported that Spanish footballers were involved. One of the cyclists (who has no reason to lie) said that he personally saw a number of Spanish footballers at the offices of the doctor organising the doping; the French newspaper Le Monde also reported that Barca and Real both consulted with the doctor to fine-tune their 'seasonal fitness preparations'. Again, I don't think this is cast-iron proof and I'm not presenting it as such. Imo the heart defect numbers are more damning evidence than anything.

Greenlizard0 · 21 Mar 2011 at 23:26

Why don't we just both come out and admit we've both used Wikipedia?

You've read the same things as I have.

MURDEROUS G · 21 Mar 2011 at 23:31

Greenlizard0 said:
Why don't we just both come out and admit we've both used Wikipedia?

You've read the same things as I have.

Lol probably true

. I've read a lot on other forums and have Googled the same stuff as I'm sure you have, I guess I just view the combination of the heart issues plaguing Spanish football and the rumours swirling around Operación Puerto as pretty conclusive.

Tummy · 22 Mar 2011 at 01:47

The rules and regular testing of players in Spain for drugs is very poor.

This was "leaked" in an off the record conversation iirc, was reading something Sid Lowe wrote.

Seems to be either, a Journo looking for a story or Real being bitter.

drunkenmaster · 22 Mar 2011 at 04:31

The "heart problems" issues isn't necessarily a statistical anomaly, its just a group of people who are tested far more often and basically every professional footballer will eventually undergo a test that will show up serious heart problems.

Doesn't really mean the same amount of people in the normal population don't have the issue, loads of people have a heart issue that "could" kill them, but never does.

I really wouldn't be surprised if drug use was WAY more common than we are led to believe, yet also not that bad.

The thing that makes truly great players, like Messi, is the mind, not the body, and laughable he's someone who effectively "did" cheat, if you took growth hormones to gain height at 18years old while playing football you'd be caught and banned, do it from 13-17, you're fine.

afaik Denilson wasn't due a test and went missing, he was basically breaking into the team, getting sub appearances and starts in the easier games iirc, then without any mention of a real injury he just absolutely dissappeared for best part of a year, no mention of it, just not mentioned at all. Then he reappeared just as suddenly. The rumour is essentially they found out he was taking something bad, so they hid him away, theres very little reason to go drug testing youth team players who aren't even playing in the reserve league.

Then you get into the, do drugs make that much difference anyway, considering the best players aren't just brute force, this isn't weight lifting, long jump, running etc so it makes FAR less difference. On top of the fact that, surely if someone really wanted to you could spike Messi's drink in a club with something that could make him fail a test, infact, I'm incredibly surprised that doesn't happen more often. Some psycho fan going and spiking the drinks of players their biggest rivals players.

platypus · 22 Mar 2011 at 09:03

Greenlizard0 said:
or should I say they will never be able to buy Messi.

The same was said about Figo.

jakeke · 22 Mar 2011 at 10:33

Sounds to me like Real Madrid have a few bent friends behind closed doors at UEFA (who doesn't?) and have pulled in some favours. Isn't football lovely.

Greenlizard0 · 22 Mar 2011 at 11:22

platypus said:
The same was said about Figo.

Very different sums of money involved though.

Don't forget that Figo peaked later on, Messi's only 23 and has been up and running for a few years already.

Edit - I suppose they'd have to break the bank like they did for Ronaldo and Kaka. But will they do it again fairly soon? Ronaldo cost E80m, Messi's got a release clause at least double that.

elmuzzy66. · 22 Mar 2011 at 14:02

platypus said:
The same was said about Figo.

Figo didn't come through the youth setup so i wouldn't expect to much loyalty.

mmj_uk · 22 Mar 2011 at 16:53

Probably just mind games, an attempt to destabilise the Barcelona team.

MURDEROUS G · 22 Mar 2011 at 18:26

drunkenmaster said:
The "heart problems" issues isn't necessarily a statistical anomaly, its just a group of people who are tested far more often and basically every professional footballer will eventually undergo a test that will show up serious heart problems.

Doesn't really mean the same amount of people in the normal population don't have the issue, loads of people have a heart issue that "could" kill them, but never does.

If this were the explanation - that these issues crop up more frequently in professional sportsmen because of their exhaustive testing regimens - then this volume of heart defects would show up in every professional football league. Right?

But it doesn't. There are many more in Spain than anywhere else.