Base clocks on Intel CPUs appear to be decreasing each generation. Why?

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 08:20

g67575 said:
The 13900K (or high end CPU) has a base clock of just 3.0ghz, according to this:

Intel Raptor Lake flagship CPU could be seriously speedy, new leak suggests

Core i9-13900K might be a handful for AMD

www.techradar.com

The TDP is apparently 125w:

That would be the lowest base clock for an unlocked mainstream desktop CPU (i3/i5/i7) in probably 10 years or more.

Maybe they will improve increase it a bit more, before release?

No, its probably right, they added 8 core E cores and they want to keep marketing that 125 watts so base clocks reduced.

Bencher · 14 Jul 2022 at 08:31

humbug said:
Intel base their TDP on the base clocks.

So 12900K 125 watts advertised, that's at 3.2Ghz, not 5.1Ghz.
From a marketing perspective it looks better to write 125 watts TDP on the box, 241 watts doesn't look as good.

Its completely arbitrary, they could write 95 watts on the box if they wanted to, which would be a true statement, at 2.8Ghz. The more cores they add the lower that base clock needs to be if what they want to do is advertise it as a 125 watt CPU.

I assure you it does not drop to 3.2 ghz at 125watts, lol.

The 5950x has base clocks of 3.4 yet it runs cbr23 at 3.9 afaik.

Base clocks are worst case scenario prime95 smallest ffts or something

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 08:53

Bencher said:
I assure you it does not drop to 3.2 ghz at 125watts, lol.

The 5950x has base clocks of 3.4 yet it runs cbr23 at 3.9 afaik.

Base clocks are worst case scenario prime95 smallest ffts or something

The difference is AMD's CPU's don't go above the TPD rating, how they get to that TDP rating is questionable given they don't include the IO die in it, the CCD/s are rated to 105 watts, they are hard locked to that unless you turn BPO on.

5800X clocks to 4.6Ghz in R23 at 105 watts CCD, the 5950X about 4Ghz at 105 watts for both CCD's combined.

The IO die uses about 15 to 25 watts.

Bencher · 14 Jul 2022 at 15:19

humbug said:
The difference is AMD's CPU's don't go above the TPD rating, how they get to that TDP rating is questionable given they don't include the IO die in it, the CCD/s are rated to 105 watts, they are hard locked to that unless you turn BPO on.

5800X clocks to 4.6Ghz in R23 at 105 watts CCD, the 5950X about 4Ghz at 105 watts for both CCD's combined.

The IO die uses about 15 to 25 watts.

It doesnt matter, the point is base clocks are dare i say meaningless for both amd and intel. Youll never see clocks drop that low unless you are trying to do it on purpose

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 15:22

Bencher said:
It doesnt matter, the point is base clocks are dare i say meaningless for both amd and intel. Youll never see clocks drop that low unless you are trying to do it on purpose

You're missing the point.

Bencher · 14 Jul 2022 at 15:59

humbug said:
You're missing the point.

No im not, you complained that intel advertises 5.1 ghz while also advertising 125w tdp. Well that 5.1 refers to ST boost clocks and it can achieve it at 125w tdp. So what is the problem exactly?

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:13

Bencher said:
No im not, you complained that intel advertises 5.1 ghz while also advertising 125w tdp. Well that 5.1 refers to ST boost clocks and it can achieve it at 125w tdp. So what is the problem exactly?

It actually runs at 241 watts.

Bencher · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:26

humbug said:
It actually runs at 241 watts.

For the 5.1 ghz single core boost it obviously doesnt need 241 watts. Again, i dont see what the problem is...

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:30

Bencher said:
For the 5.1 ghz single core boost it obviously doesnt need 241 watts. Again, i dont see what the problem is...

You're missing the point again, whatever clocks at whatever specific boost state is not the argument i'm making, you're conflating my explaining how Intel calculate their advertised wattage and why it differs from actual wattage, IE 125 advertised vs 241 reality.

Yaayuh! · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:31

@humbug @Bencher
Worth a read instead of going back and forth with each other: https://www.extremetech.com/computi...onger-useful-to-predict-cpu-power-consumption

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:33

Yaayuh! said:
@humbug @Bencher
Worth a read instead of going back and forth with each other: https://www.extremetech.com/computi...onger-useful-to-predict-cpu-power-consumption

Yeah.... to quote:

On paper, an Intel CPU’s TDP is the maximum power consumed under a sustained workload at base frequency. The reason the 10700K has a 125W TDP versus the 10700’s 65W TDP is because of the huge gap in their base clock

That's what i said.

humbug said:
Intel base their TDP on the base clocks.

So 12900K 125 watts advertised, that's at 3.2Ghz, not 5.1Ghz.
From a marketing perspective it looks better to write 125 watts TDP on the box, 241 watts doesn't look as good.

Its completely arbitrary, they could write 95 watts on the box if they wanted to, which would be a true statement, at 2.8Ghz. The more cores they add the lower that base clock needs to be if what they want to do is advertise it as a 125 watt CPU.

Jay85 · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:37

humbug said:
Yeah.... to quote:

That's what i said.

Imagine if i could run my 5.1ghz 12700k at 125w tdp! Man i would have won the silicon lotto big time! :cry:

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:39

Jay85 said:
Imagine if i could run my 5.1ghz 12700k at 125w tdp! Man i would have won the silicon lotto big time!

It would be pretty sweet...

Jay85 · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:40

humbug said:
It would be pretty sweet...

You been playing with your clocks at all for SC? Hitting that magic number?

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:41

Jay85 said:
You been playing with your clocks at all for SC? Hitting that magic number?

No not yet, i might wait for the week end, it would require more attention i can give it right now.

Jay85 · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:46

humbug said:
No not yet, i might wait for the week end, it would require more attention i can give it right now.

I've been using SC as the baseline for my tests lol. I figured if it will run on SC then it will run on anything since SC seems to be the only game that some settings won't run on. So far i've not been wrong!

Let us know your results when you start tinkering

humbug · 14 Jul 2022 at 16:47

Jay85 said:
I've been using SC as the baseline for my tests lol. I figured if it will run on SC then it will run on anything since SC seems to be the only game that some settings won't run on. So far i've not been wrong!

Let us know your results when you start tinkering

Best stress test on earth, SC.

I will

~>Dg<~ · 15 Jul 2022 at 00:10

if you just idling 24 hrs a day dont matter. intel do something bang instantly where it needs to be amd you can feel the jump.

g67575 · 4 Aug 2022 at 10:00

The 12 core 7900X (Zen 4) will apparently have a base clock of 4.7ghz, at 170w!
Link here:

AMD 16-core Zen4 Ryzen 9 7950X CPU allegedly boosts up to 5.7 GHz - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 7000 specs leaked Two media outlets Expreview and Wccftech claim to have final specifications of the upcoming Ryzen 7000 CPUs. The flagship Ryzen 9 7950X CPU with 16-cores and 32-threads will have significantly higher clock speeds compared to “Zen3” 5950X part. It is reported that the...

videocardz.com

The 7700X has a base clock of 4.5ghz at a tdp of just 105w.

Miles better than the 12900KS base clock, of 3.4ghz at 150w.

The 7700X looks like it could be one of the most power efficient desktop CPUs available, if these rumours are correct.

Update - The 7600X is rumoured to have a base clock of 4.7ghz, at a tdp of 105w, so it too appears to be a very power efficient processor. Details here:

Potential Ryzen 7000-series CPU Specs and Pricing Leak, Ryzen 9 7950X Expected to hit 5.7 GHz

It's pretty clear that we're getting very close to the launch of AMD's AM5 platform and the Ryzen 7000-series CPUs, with spec details and even pricing brackets tipping up online. Wccftech has posted what the publication believes will be the lineup we can expect to launch in just over a month's...

www.techpowerup.com

And it looks like it will only cost ~£200 inc VAT.

If the TDPs are correct, the max power usage for the 7600X and 7700X (operating at turboboost speeds > 5ghz) should be 105 x 1.35 = 141.75w.

g67575 · 19 Aug 2022 at 16:20

So, it looks like the base clocks for the 13th gen are going to be even lower than their counterparts in the 12th generation series:

Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake-S" lineup leaks out, 4 to 24 cores and three different dies - VideoCardz.com

Intel reportedly has three dies for Raptor Lake-S ExtremePlayer has an update to the Intel 13th Gen Core specs, including the models that are not launching in the foreseeable future. According to the specs posted by the Chinese content creator ExtremePlayer, Intel is set to launch 14 different...

videocardz.com

12900K base clock =3.2ghz. 13900K baseclock = 3.0ghz.
12700K base clock =3.6ghz. 13700K baseclock = 3.4ghz.
12600K base clock =3.7ghz. 13600K baseclock = 3.5ghz.