Basic DSLR camera?

[Merlin5]

Hi guys. I'm thinking of buying a camera for two reasons.
I don't like the wide angle effect from my phone camera, it never gives a true representation of the shape of the subject. For example, square objects never look properly square, or my face looks narrower than when I look in the mirror.

The second reason is that I want to take photos of the birds in my garden that come to the feeder and bird bath. I get goldfinches, greenfinches, crows, robins, and a few others. I like to take photos from my kitchen window and the feeder is about 20 feet away. The zoom on my phone camera is nowhere near good enough. There's very little colour and detail and it's blurry. When I look through my binoculars however, I wish the binoculars could take photos because the clarity and detail is great.

So tl;dr, what do I need to buy? I don't want to spend big money, just something basic and no doubt a zoom lens. Probably second hand.
Thanks.

 

[Merlin5]

I've used a Canon 1300D with a kit zoom (75-300mm) for about 2 years for some hobbying wildlife photography and it's worked well.

Would be around £150-200 second hand, but might be better offerings, as my knowledge of lower end DSLR's is limited!

Thanks. This one looks worth bidding on.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EO...sh=item421a8d4a36:g:758AAOSwHoFe5P1R#viTabs_0

Will the 18 to 55mm zoom lens kit give me sharp focus at 20 feet distance?

Edit: Having done some research, looks like I'd need same as you, a 70 to 300mm lens, as apparently 18 to 55mm is just for general photography and not suited to wildlife?

 

[Merlin5]

Thanks very much Raymond! Ok, first I'll look up and read about those cameras and come back here. Well, I can afford £700 and I know photography gear isn't cheap. Though I'm a reluctant at the moment to spend anything like that much. What's MPB? And when buying a 50 and 70 to 200mm lens, am I limited to buying the same brand? Or can you fit a Nikon lens to a Canon camera? As you can tell, I know nothing much yet about photography!

Would either of those cameras you suggested get me the same effect you get with your food photos? Your food photos almost look 3D.

 

[Merlin5]

Ok, sticking with the 5D mk 1, there's one on ebay with 50mm I can buy for £350.

Compared to the 1300D with 50mm which is cheaper, what are the significant differences for me as a beginner? Also, there's wifi on the 1300D but I don't think there is on the 5D?

 

[Merlin5]

Thanks guys, great replies, lot of information to absorb! Ok, so main points are lens is more important, and there's 'full frame'. I'm going to go find out what that means. Is Canon generally the brand to go for then in terms of performance and affordability?

Thanks Raymond for that link to the £314 5D mk 11. Says it's well used with lots of cosmetic scratches but I guess that doesn't matter if it's fully functional. Non OEM battery ok?
MPB have this 50mm for £79. Says it's got light dust in it. Is that ok or is it one to avoid then?

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equi...U_eIsAijGh2EacQZDUxoCGf4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Merlin5]

I paid a grand second hand for my 5Dii and it is more camera than I will ever need mine has a 35mm f2 IS on it 99% of the time as 35mm is the focal length I like best. Yes the tech is a bit old and clunky compared to brand new stuff but the picture quality is amazing it still makes me smile when I use it.

£1000, that's a lot. Well I guess it's not in the photography world. And Raymond said they used to be £2000. I guess £314 Is nothing then. I think I'm sold on the 5D mk 11.

If you can get to a shop (i know right?) go hold a canon, a sony and a nikon. When I started out I was sure I wanted canon, until I got into jessops and held a Nikon - the grip was sooo much better for my smaller hands!

However if it's brass taxes you want, then Nikon IMO can be the weakest. In Canons (and sony's too) the camera body houses the auto focus motor - however in Entry level Nikons you dont get that and you have to buy lenses with the motors built in - these can cost quite a bit more. So Canon would be the better choice there as a beginner. Top end lenses are about the same for both brands, with some lengths being stronger than others - but there are some very good third party lenses out there.

Thanks for that great info montymint. Lol yeah, would certainly be nice to pop into a camera shop. But anyway, you've made me understand why Canon is the brand for me right now.

Non-OEM Canon battery is fine, I had a ton. It's only Sony or the latest gen cameras have problems with them.

Full Frame, often short to FF, refers to the size being the same as old school 35mm film camera. It is full size to 35mm film. Because when the bodies went from film to digital, they can use the same lenses. Cropped bodies, have a smaller sensor. Canon Sensor actually is a little smaller. Cropped bodies came first because at first sensors were very expensive and low yield so to make a large sensor with less than tolerance number of dead pixels were difficult so easier to make a cropped sensor.

I am not bothered with dead pixels these days, Lightroom actually has built in algorithm to spot them and remove them before you even notice.

As for dust - easy to clean, scary at first but easy.

Thanks Raymond. Is the dust something I'd notice when looking through the viewfinder?

I just read an article on full frame. I didn't really understand the significance of 35mm, but now I get it I think. It seems the important things about full frame is considerably better image resolution, better in low lighting, and more of the scene is captured as opposed to cropped, is that right? That makes full frame more desirable to me and eliminates the 1300D.

 

[Merlin5]

at the same F stop, FF give you nicer background blur (bokeh), if you have 20mil pixels in a FF and 20mil pixels in a cropped sensor, the pixels in a FF is larger and further apart.

A Larger pixel with more room to "breath" (not a technical term) is better for low light, actually for birds, it's cheaper to get a cropped body because you are essentially getting a built in digital zoom.

I understand most of what you said. Unclear on one thing... what is F stop?

So let's say I've bought the 5D 11 and 50mm lens and I save up for the 70 to 200mm lens. What approximate maximum distance in feet will the 50mm give me? In other words, if I want to take pictures of a bird 20 feet away, will the 50mm capture it well?

 

[Merlin5]

Thanks guys. So the camera is sorted, I think I'm going to buy that Canon 5D ll.

Going back to my main reason for buying a camera, I want to have the ability to shoot pictures of birds (or any creatures) from a distance of about 20 foot away but so they look close up, like looking through my binoculars.

I'm now aware of 50mm and 70 to 200mm lens. These photos by The ReaperGuy who already posted in this thread, are how I want to mine to look.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32532299

He says he was using a 75 to 200mm.
lens. What sort of maximum distance with that lens could he have been standing from those birds to be able to get those close ups? Is 20 feet possible?

The reason I'm asking is because perhaps I'm being unrealistic, or perhaps it's impossible expecting to get close ups like that from 20 feet away without some super expensive zoom lens?

 

[Merlin5]

I can do a test for you tomorrow with 20ft and at 200mm.

I only have a Sony A73 now but it is very close in pixel count on the sensor so it's not going to be much different.

Yes Raymond, please do that test, that would be awesome! Can you also take a snap 20 feet away of a bird or something similar size with your 50mm lens, just so I can see what that would look like?

 

[Merlin5]

I have Ironman to help

He is 6 inches tall.

Haha, thanks, looks excellent. Was that 20 foot away with your 200mm? What would it look like with 50mm?

This must be the F4 200mm you mentioned on page 1 at MPB:

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equi...VXiiZA8yMAMqGs6u7zRoCMdsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Merlin5]

Nice. Looks like some bit of gear I'd expect from Elon Musk and SpaceX .

 

[Merlin5]

Stunning photos, both of them. Great job. You composed the shot beautifully, it's almost identical. Yours seems to have the same level of detail and clarity, it's only the colours, extra traffic and shadows that are different. What a backdrop of that mountain, holy crap.

 

[Merlin5]

Guys, I've been checking out alternative telephoto lenses to the Canon 70-200mm F4.

The Tamron SP 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di VC USD has image stabilisation and is a fair bit cheaper. Even brand new at £299 on ebay it's cheaper than a used Canon that has no image stabilisation. Would you recommend it or am I better off going with a well used Canon non image stabilisation lens?

This video comparison shows great results, well, good enough for me as a noob to this hobby, so I'm very tempted to go with the Tamron instead. https://youtu.be/pzI0JbMQdKM

Also, some are listed as compatible with Canon EF, some for Canon BNIB and some just say Canon. For the 5D mk2 I guess I need the EF version?

Since this is all new I REALLY recommend this book:

https://www.waterstones.com/book/understanding-exposure-3rd-edition/bryan-peterson/9780817439392

although there now is a fourth edition, which is probably better but as I don;t own it I can't say for sure

Bryan explains how the various settings you have control over change how the photo will look, using pictures as examples.

Forgot to say thanks for this recommendation, I think I'll probably buy it.

 

[Merlin5]

Raymond, thanks, that's just what I wanted to see. You had me worried when i saw the first image but then realised that was only at 70mm. So the second image cropped gives you that close up last image, right? If you're getting that from 200mm, then the Tamron 300mm will be fine. I've decided I'm going with the Tamron zoom. Here's my basket so far, I'm still below £600.

I know it doesn't affect the final image, and can't remember if I asked this, but will I see lens dust through the viewfinder, is it reflected back up from the lens to the viewfinder?

I also need a memory card. I read that compact flash cards are better than a regular SD cards. Will this be good and give me enough photo storage space?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ex...3722&sprefix=sandisk+comp,aps,156&sr=8-4&th=1

 

[Merlin5]

Its an optical viewfinder so you can't shoot through the LCD, you have to look through the viewfinder.

And yes, Compact Flash only, actually only 1 card slot in the 5D2 and its CF.

What size storage card do you use most of time and can you get a few hundred shots on it?
Regarding the viewfinder, that's what I meant. Looking through the viewfinder and not at the LCD screen. Just wondering if the small amount of lens dust that both lens I'm buying apparently have a little of, will be seen through the viewfinder.

 

[Merlin5]

Thanks Raymond, I will most definitely buy a CF card from you. The Sandisk 32gb one I linked on the previous page looks ideal if you have that, or even a 16gb card with fast write speed.