Battery or alternator?

Meatball · 29 Jun 2016 at 17:23

Hello!

MINI Cooper S R56 '57 plate

Yesterday afternoon while driving the car the following message appeared on the screen:

Charging Fault said:
Battery no longer being charged. Switch off electrical consumers that are not required! Have the problem checked by your local MINI dealership

The car appeared to turn off the fan etc but drove normally. Today I took the car to Halfords and their battery checker showed it was "ok" but needed a recharge. I was a bit dubious, so attempted to take it to "kwik" fit but they left me waiting for over 30 minutes before I gave up. When I turned the car on to drive home the time and date had disappeared and the following message appeared:

Time and date said:
Battery was disconnected. Time and date are no longer correct...

And:

Vehicle Battery said:
Increased battery discharge while stationary. Electrical consumers may have been switched off. Reset date and time if necessary

The charging fault also appeared again after 5 minutes of driving. The battery has not been changed during my ownership of the car (2.5 years) and I don't remember seeing any evidence in the service history of a battery change. I understand a new battery will have to be programmed to the car but Berry Heathrow want £210 + VAT!!! I'm slightly worried it's more than just the battery considering the diagnostic machine said it was ok and the fault says charging fault rather than battery fault. Berry Heathrow wanted a further £99 but just for diagnostics!

Any suggestions?

Teknobry · 29 Jun 2016 at 17:32

stay away from berry heathrow for a start!

slick rick · 29 Jun 2016 at 17:50

If you replace the battery like for like you can get away without getting the new one coded/registered. If it is a genuine original Mini battery it will be either black or white, black means AGM technology and white means its a conventional battery. So for example if your car has a black 95ah 760CCA battery you need to buy a 95AH AGM battery with 760 or more CCA. If you do this you wont need to code the new battery.

It could be an alternator fault but if the battery is original I would start there anyway.

Meatball · 29 Jun 2016 at 18:06

This is the battery! I'll have another look through the history again to see if I can spot any signs of a battery replacement. If it hasn't been replaced it's certainly getting on a bit now!

If it is the alternator would that put a lot more strain on / damage a new battery?

Finglonga · 29 Jun 2016 at 18:16

There must be a better place to take it that Halfrauds and Kwik*hit as they are both the two places I would never take my car to. Any good garage will test the charging system for you.

kaiowas · 29 Jun 2016 at 18:17

get hold of a multimeter and put it across the terminals of the battery. With the engine off and the battery charged/healthy you should see somewhere in the region of 12v (at this point your battery may be low on charge so don't worry too much if it's low). Start the car and if the alternator is doing it's thing you should see about 14v. If the voltage doesn't change when you start the car then your alternator is doing nothing.

Report back and we can take it from there

kaiowas · 29 Jun 2016 at 18:21

On reflection that post was probably a bit overly technical for this forum these days, i should probably have just posted about PCPs, some consumer law advice or "spec me an air freshener".

Meatball · 29 Jun 2016 at 18:35

Thanks, I'll try and find a multimeter and get back

.

slick rick · 29 Jun 2016 at 18:39

Meatball said:
This is the battery! I'll have another look through the history again to see if I can spot any signs of a battery replacement. If it hasn't been replaced it's certainly getting on a bit now!

If it is the alternator would that put a lot more train on / damage the new battery?

It certainly looks like the original battery to me. It's a lead acid which is good as a replacement will be cheaper.

If it is the alternator it shouldn't damage the battery if it is undercharging. You can do a basic test of the alternator with a multimeter as suggested by the poster above, but as your car has intelligent battery monitoring and charging it may require more in depth diagnostics.

Ryan-3 · 29 Jun 2016 at 19:11

You'd be right at the end of the lifetime for the original battery (AGM). Mine was on its last legs and needed replacing a few months back and I have the same car, same age. But, check it with a multimetre first so you know for sure what is throwing up these warnings as mine only ever told me I had a low battery charge.

Orionaut · 29 Jun 2016 at 20:37

slick rick said:
It certainly looks like the original battery to me. It's a lead acid which is good as a replacement will be cheaper.

If it is the alternator it shouldn't damage the battery if it is undercharging. You can do a basic test of the alternator with a multimeter as suggested by the poster above, but as your car has intelligent battery monitoring and charging it may require more in depth diagnostics.

Indeed,

"Almost" nobody gets a replacement battery from the dealer!

If you see an OEM battery in a car it is either the one that it left the factory with or one that was replaced under some sort of warranty while the car was still pretty new.

A 57 plate car with the original battery has done astonishingly well!

I would check the alternator etc before coming to any firm conclusion, but I would change the battery anyway whatever the outcome. It certainly doesn't owe you anything at this stage! :cool:

Meatball · 30 Jun 2016 at 15:24

Hello,

I took the car to P&R BMW Specialist in Hayes. They just got back to me to say the battery fitted is the wrong kind, and faulty. Also, the diagnostics machine picked up a few wrong voltages in the engine management unit which links to to the alternator being faulty and not charging the battery properly?

Battery replacement is £110 and the alternator is been £700-£830 depending on which one is fitted currently.

Gutted.

dale1uk · 30 Jun 2016 at 15:46

Meatball said:
Hello,

I took the car to P&R BMW Specialist in Hayes. They just got back to me to say the battery fitted is the wrong kind, and faulty. Also, the diagnostics machine picked up a few wrong voltages in the engine management unit which links to to the alternator being faulty and not charging the battery properly?

Battery replacement is £110 and the alternator is been £700-£830 depending on which one is fitted currently.

Gutted.

Ouch, I'd be looking for a non-genuine alternator (I presume that's what they've quoted you for going off the price)

For example http://www.startermotor-alternator-...er-16-r55-r56-r57-alternator-a3068-6233-p.asp

Meatball · 30 Jun 2016 at 16:09

I'm really sceptical of their diagnosis, especially regarding the "wrong" battery being fitted. Considering I bought the car from MINI as approved used and it's been back to the garage several times with no mentioned of it.

Clarkey · 30 Jun 2016 at 16:12

Fault code this, fault code that. How hard is it to put a damn volt meter across the battery, it's not rocket science to see if the alternator is working.

iaind · 30 Jun 2016 at 16:14

TIL about batteries being coded to the car!

But yeah, stick a multimeter on it

Meatball · 30 Jun 2016 at 16:20

Clarkey said:
Fault code this, fault code that. How hard is it to put a damn volt meter across the battery, it's not rocket science to see if the alternator is working.

The car broke down on me on the yesterday evening. I felt the power steering go, followed by all the other systems and the car just cut out. I was recovered to my place of work.

Green Flag came back out this morning and their reader returned between 13.98-14v with the engine running, which he said is ok. Then again, his battery tester also showed the battery was ok. There was 4amps of drain for a few minutes after the car was off however this soon dropped to 0.2 amps. The only oddity was the checker showed a battery capacity higher than that listed on the battery if I remember, I had just finished a night shift though

iaind · 30 Jun 2016 at 16:26

Could be a bad earth or loose connection?

Finglonga · 30 Jun 2016 at 16:36

Clarkey said:
Fault code this, fault code that. How hard is it to put a damn volt meter across the battery, it's not rocket science to see if the alternator is working.

That is how they are taught now, NOBODY is taught proper diagnostics. The BMW/Mini spares prices are a joke as well. There is nothing special about BMW compared to other cars on the roads apart from their extortionate prices. As said O would get yet another diagnosis as it has been running fine and now it has the wrong battery fitted? :confused:

slick rick · 30 Jun 2016 at 17:17

Does your car have stop start? If so that could indicate that the wrong battery is fitted as I would expect an AGM battery to be fitted to a car with stop start. Did they tell you what battery is supposed to be fitted as there are a few choices that can be selected via coding?