Battery Technology - where is it ?!?!

Look at Formula E. They're swapping cars every 30 - 45 minutes were they not?

Pitstops involve a change of car: when the battery power runs low a driver makes a timed pit stop and switches into a new fully charged car.
Races are approximately 45 minutes in length.
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SDK^ said:
Most other areas of tech have improved hundreds of thousands times over what was available in 1990 but if I walk Tesco now pretty much the same batteries are being sold as years ago.
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How often do you need to buy C or D cells these days? When I was a kid virtually any decent electronic device used loads of big cells. Now pretty much everything that uses 'normal' batteries is using AA or AAA cells.
 
I would like to see batteries (esp lipo) become lighter, and last longer, or if a new type of battery could replace these, that would be good.
 
Glaucus said:
It's moved on massively since you were a kid.

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And it's gone up massively since then.
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I was going to say, that is absolutely bogus.


It is things like the progression of LiIon batteries that have allowed things likes quadrotrs as toys to be possible10 years ago such machines were completely infeasible due to required battery weights.

Similar with electric cars, 10 years ago they just weren't practical in the slightest. Now you can by an electric car with a 300 mile range and 0-60 in 3.2 seconds.
 
I remember having a conversation a while ago with someone who said that battery and hybrid technology is only allowed to progress as patents expire. He said that when the first electric cars started being built back in the 70s, the oil companies bought out all the patents they could so as to not hinder their cash flow. Now these patents are starting to expire, technology can move on.

No idea how true this is though.
 
SDK^ said:
I understand battery life has improved a little over time but it's still measured in hours. A 5-6x improvement since 2005 is slow development.
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I don't think you understand how technology progresses because you are so focused only on micochips and the extremely unusual growth there aforded by die shrinks.


Something more realistic to compare batteries to is say car efficiency.
In 1980 a new American passenger car averaged 24.3 MPG, in 2011 it averaged 33.1MPG. So in 30 years car efficiency has increased a miserable 36%


Yet you are complaining that battery energy density has increased 100% in a decade:confused::confused::confused:
 
DJMK4 said:
I would like to see batteries (esp lipo) become lighter, and last longer, or if a new type of battery could replace these, that would be good.
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Who wouldn't which is why billions upon billions of dollars are being poured into battery technology and research, it is one of the fastest growing technologies due to the extreme pressures of mobile computing, electric cars and general green energy movements.


battery technology is moving incredibly quickly, people just don't understand the complexity of increasing energy density while also increasing charge times, life time, cycles, peak current, safety, sustainable resources etc.
 
Of course battery tech has improved. It's not as magical as some sources seem to claim but it has most definitely improved a whole load as mentioned earlier by folks.

We have AA batteries from Eneloop that hold at least 75% of their charge after sitting on a shelf for 3 years for starters. Then there are 1900-2400mAh 18650 cells that can light a 1000lumen torch for a few hours or tens of hours at half that output. Try running a 50-100 lumen Maglite 30 years ago!

Tesla are paving the way with car battery innovations too with 20 minute quick charging stations that give you around 150 miles of further driving.

Mobile phones can charge to 50% from 0% in just 10 minutes.

And on top of that the next 2-3 years we will likely see some new cell technologies hitting the market that will change things again.
 
If AAA and AA batteries became so efficient, the bosses at Energizer and Duracell would have to wipe their behinds with toilet paper instead of $100 notes.
 
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The battery technology hasn't been developed as much due to petrol. If you think about how much money there is in petrol and you were getting a slice of that money, you wouldn't want this to end, would you? People were most likely delaying the development as it was in favour of those who make money out of petrol.

I'm more interested in H2 (Hydrogen) used as petrol and a big plus unlike the batteries its not harmful to our environment. :)
 
SDK^ said:
My 3 year old son is now getting into small remote cars, dinosaurs etc... and i'm finding the same battery life issues that existed when I a child are still around today.

In 30+ years mainstream battery technology hasn't moved on at all.
Li-ion rechargeable battery life is still short as are the Duracell Alkaline / equivalents. The battery life of these can be measured in a maximum of a few hours which is rubbish when you're a child because the fun stops, or when you're a adult because you spend a small fortune keeping the toys going.

Where are the hydro, fusion batteries which have been in development for years, which charge in seconds and last for weeks or months ?!?!
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Problem is, since you were a kid the motors have moved on massively as well.

Performance is double or triple that of an old 540 with a modern brushless motor.

What you can do these days is have a decent set of lipos x3 and have one charging while you use another while the 3rd cools. With the right charger the fun can be endless.

With nicads you were good for 5 mins and 30 mins charging.
 
IC3 said:
The battery technology hasn't been developed as much due to petrol. If you think about how much money there is in petrol and you were getting a slice of that money, you wouldn't want this to end, would you? People were most likely delaying the development as it was in favour of those who make money out of petrol.

I'm more interested in H2 (Hydrogen) used as petrol and a big plus unlike the batteries its not harmful to our environment. :)
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What rubbish. There's just as much money to be made in batteries and producing the power to charge said batteries. With the benefit of not dealing with corrupt countries.

As for hydrogen it's a non starter. Hugely inefficient to produce. Hard to transport, hard to store and a million miles behind the infrastructure of electricity.
 
Battery will never be ever lasting and it is rubbish. Do you think oil companies are the only ones with billions to spend?
Do you also think oil companies will kill themselfs. That's what you are saying.
 
SDK^ said:
Most other areas of tech have improved hundreds of thousands times over what was available in 1990 but if I walk Tesco now pretty much the same batteries are being sold as years ago.
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Part of the problem is that you're buying your batteries in Tesco. Highstreet stores don't care about battery technology, and the battery suppliers (Energizer, Duracell etc.) are keen for them to stock profitable products.
Case in point; Go into a supermarket and look at the paltry, ridiculously poor selection and type of rechargeable batteries available. Last time I looked, I saw Duracell selling 1400mAh AA NiMH rechargeables, a technology from 1980.

Better batteries exist, they exist in droves, but you're never going to see them at Tesco.
Like Mrk mentioned, Panasonic (formerly Sanyo) Eneloops hold a typ. 2000mAh and hold that charge for years. The Eneloop Pro (formerly Eneloop XX) holds 2400mAh for more than a year, and can be used more than 500 times without seeing significant capacity degradation.

Moving away from NiMH and to Li-ion tech, power density has increased massively, and more importantly, cost has dropped. In the last twenty years, Specific energy of Li-Ion cells has gone from 100Wh/Kg to over 260Wh/Kg, and with the technological developments for battery materials, this is expected to further rise.

It's naive to assume that just because you haven't seen it, even though you've not been looking, that the technology hasn't advanced.
 
SDK^ said:
I understand battery life has improved a little over time but it's still measured in hours. A 5-6x improvement since 2005 is slow development.
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Is it?

How many more mpg does a car get now vs 2005?
How much faster do aeroplanes go now vs 2005?
How much more payload can we put into space on one rocket now vs 2005?

Get where I'm going with this?

You're flat out wrong - batteries have improved since 2005 and at a reasonable rate.
 
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