Battle of the GPUs: Is power efficiency the new must-have?

[Gregster]

Even just a year ago, having a hot-running graphics card such as AMD's R9 290X, was par for the course. Admittedly, there have been hotter and cooler examples of 'the must have' GPU over the years but in general, if it's good value and performs well, I'm usually sold.

This is especially true with me as I usually rip the stock cooler off a new graphics card straight away and fit a waterblock, so heat has never really bothered me. The exceptions were excessively inefficient models such as Nvidia's GTX 480, which weren't that fast and could heat your average Olympic swimming pool. Equally, AMD's dual-GPU offerings have often generated too much heat and been overkill for my needs.

However, something changed with Nvidia's GTX 750 Ti, which was the first of its Maxwell GPUs for desktop. Here was a graphics card so power efficient, that it actually became popular with Bitcoin miners even though until that point, Nvidia had been lagging behind AMD, which had sold shedloads of cards to digital currency miners.

Likewise for gamers and anyone that appreciates an efficient bit of hardware, the GTX 980 and GTX 970 proved to be equally good when it comes to your electricity bill. The GTX 980, for example, drew 299W under load (that's the combined system load), while the GTX 780 comes in at 373W and AMD's R9 290X at 409W. I nearly couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Matt's review.

Battle of the GPUs: Is power efficiency the new must-have? Why I love Nvidia's 9-series: should AMD be worried?
Nvidia's GTX 980 drew over 100W less than the R9 290X in our tests - AMD has to deal with this deficit with its new GPUs.

That's a huge improvement, and with my little office getting unbearably hot in the summer if I even think about gaming, the ability to consume 100W less and have a more powerful graphics card at the same time is a godsend. In fact, part of my reason for not owning a 4K screen at the moment, as I discussed in my recent blog - AMD and Nvidia need to step up to the 4K challenge is that even if I could get my hands on the GPU horsepower to deal with all those pixels, the heat generated wouldn't be tolerable in the summer.

So, things are actually looking good in terms of GPU power efficiency but I inevitably began to compare the GPU market with the CPU one, specifically the fact that AMD's CPUs are so much hotter-running and less efficient than Intel's. Once you overclock them the difference is catastrophically huge, with AMD's FX CPUs drawing a huge amount of power. The contrast here, though, is huge compared to the battle between Nvidia and AMD. Here, the two are out of sync in GPU launches, so while Nvidia already has its high-end next-gen graphics cards out in the wild, all eyes are on AMD to come up with a competitive product, which we expect to land realtively soon.

Battle of the GPUs: Is power efficiency the new must-have? Why I love Nvidia's 9-series: should AMD be worried?
The R9 290X is a toasty customer, so much so that water-cooling it actually eliminates thermal throttling and boosts performance over reference cooler-equipped models, even at default frequencies - click to enlarge

In fact, you only have to look in our forum to see hardware spec-filled signatures sporting an at-a-glance equal number of Radeon or GeForce - both have offered up excellent products in the last 24 months and it's only Nvidia's recent 900-series launch that has started a cycle of GPU launches that began with the GTX 750 Ti, and will likely end with AMD's mid-range offerings next year, or possibly with the eagerly-awaited GTX 960.

While AMD might seem to be on the back foot at the moment, a lot can be put down to the fact it's out of sync and Nvidia was first to market with a new product. I'm genuinely excited to see what it comes up with as my aging GTX 660 Ti has seen better days. However, I do think that to really win the best GPU crown, AMD has to reign in its power consumption, even if the supposed R9 390X is a lot faster than the GTX 980. Absolute performance is all very well but bucking the trend of better power efficiency would be unwise. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long to find out if AMD has managed to do it.

http://www.bit-tech.net/blog/2014/11/17/why-i-love-nvidia-s-9-series-should-amd-be/

An interesting read there

 

[Gregster]

But it does relate to heat. I care about heat/noise a lot. And it's due to the cool running nature of the 980's why I finally took the SLi plunge. So it mattered, albeit indirectly, to me.

This man gets it

 

[Gregster]

Just give me a hungry full-fat fire breathing beast and let me worry about taming it!....please!

I think most of us are the same who water cool (or more) and couldn't give a **** how much power it uses in truth. The problem for most people is the heat that is generated and when looking at a small form factor case, there will be some serious throttling going on if the cards cooler isn't up to the job.

 

[Gregster]

I know Greg but i'm selfish so i'm only thinking about myself

Had my first play with LN2 over the weekend...Incredible experience and kinda got the bug for it now. No worries about heat there, with sitting at -150c whilst benching a 5960X

 

[Gregster]

Nice! some day i'll move in that direction, you know when i'm single and living alone... a man can dream can't he?

I hear that and I was looking at pots and will be tapping up HiVizMan (legend) for some LN2 days. I have the bench table and will be looking at getting some cheap parts soon to ruin.

 

[Gregster]

sounds like you'll be moving to LN2 quite soon then! good luck but can't help be a wee bit jealous

Not if the Mrs has anything to do with it I will get there but gonna need to be a bit coy with parts and probably looking at 2500Ks/3770Ks perhaps with possibly a 680/7970 to start with.

 

[Gregster]

Not really, less heat Yeah but you still limited by the core temperature.

I am not following? Can you elaborate please.

 

[Gregster]

It does make me chuckle how Price/performance was the defacto when AMD had that covered and now nVidia have it covered with the 970, it is no longer valid and nobody (or at least the outspoken) no longer see it as valid.

 

[Gregster]

"Look to the title of the thread"...

"Look at who created the thread"

"Look back at Greg"...

Thought this thread is about power efficiency, not about bang for bucks or what card to buy...so you are encouraging me and everyone else to go off topic?

Not sure what you are trying to say but I found the original article an interesting read. I live in a house with 3 women, so the last thing I could do is save electric with hair straighteners, showers, hairdryers, lights, etc running all the time. I care about heat though and knowing what the heat was like being pumped out from 3 Titans in the Summer, I would certainly swap those out for 3 cooler running cards and if I can save some electric for the family, that's a plus

 

[Gregster]

He's trying to call you out on derailing which is stupid if you ask me. Since when were people that anal about something unless they had a personal grudge?

A few like that here and no matter how or what is said, it gets pulled apart for oneupmanship. I don't much care and water off a ducks back.

 

[Gregster]

All this bang per buck talk is laughable. Sure you can do that but when we generally ALL own high end cards, that kinda kills that argument. You only have to look at some of our systems and see what we think of BFB lol.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate not everyone is the same and where we can save a few pence, that is good but high end card users need not apply

 

[Gregster]

When it comes to performance you can put a price on it and many reviews do.
BFB is not about whether an individual thinks the price difference is worth the performance, it is about what is the performance difference for the price, the willingness to pay more for a small gain that is disproportionate to the price difference does not change that fact.

Willingness to pay and better bang for buck are 2 different things.

But you can't really do that now, as it is like buying 2 different things. AMD has Mantle and Trueaudio as part of its feature set and nVidia has DSR, ShadowPlay, PhysX etc and they will both appeal to the clued up buyer in different ways. If someone works with Cuda and games, they would be silly to buy AMD and vice versa for DirectCompute...

It is no longer BFB between AMD and nVidia, it will be AMD's BFB or nVidia's. Both have differing feature sets that will appeal to buyers in a different way.

 

[Gregster]

Features and performance are 2 different things.
Money figure is not subjective as much as 4+4=8 is not subjective, 8 not being your favorite number does not change that fact that 4+4=8

You can put a factual monetary figure of performance, pounds per fps.
You can put a factual monetary figure on features, pounds per feature.

Which ever gives the most for the less pound is the better bang per buck, dont confuse individual preference, want or desire for a feature or being more popular and selling more with better bang per buck.

Whether what anything is worth to and individual is entirely different.

Of course features and performance are different things but the end result comes down to features and performance.... If I wanted to get from A to B, I could drive or bus or walk, each will get me there but what way is the better. The same works for gaming and whilst reviewers all have different testing methodology, they all aim to give their frames Found but what about the GFX? Does one game have additional features that the other doesn't? Does the game run as smooth on one over the other? Does the game have issues on both or just one vendor? These are basics that I look to before buying anything.

I want to play with ultimate smoothness, so I bought G-Sync. AMD might well have more frames than nVidia in a particular game but is it as smooth as G-Sync? So many variables, it is unfair to compare one to the other.

 

[Gregster]

Which is all down to individual preference and issues which has nothing to do with bang for buck.

You are not looking at anything from an objective point of view and using individual bias to justify your reasoning. If someone asks what GPU gives the best bang per buck in BF4, I would say AMD. If someone asks the same for Batman, I will say nVidia. You can't wrap everything in a blanket and claim it as the defacto, when there is so many variables to take on board and mull over.

Like I say, look at the features, what the purchaser is after, what resolution, rest of the system spec.... And then decide what is the best purchase for his/her money.

 

[Gregster]

No it is not one or the other hence factual 8+8=4 is not subjective or objective its factual, subjective or objective can be used to determining if something is factual or not but once its determined its factual.

Subjective or objective if one has cancer because the signs can be many things, but once investigation has determined that it is cancer it is not subjective or objective, it is factual.


And that's all i have time for.

Well, if that is how you see 8+8, no wonder you are not making sense

 

[Gregster]

Bias for what, there is no bias for anything because i have not mentioned brands at all, im talking about bang for buck which is not exclusive to gfx cards and all you have done is shown your own bias in your assumption and dropped to your usual level which im no longer going to entertain.

I never said you used brands What I did say is price/performance is very subjective and you need to look from different perspectives. As for the rest of that, what usual level have I dropped to? I thought I was very objective and polite? I took on board what you said and disagreed. I try to look at things in a big picture mode and not a sole bias and if people can give me something objective to see from, I won't get huffy/stroppy and will take it on board.

 

[Gregster]

@ Tommy, you need to read the whole debate and then it will make more sense. You are picking at points but missing others. Nice try though.

Edit:

Fair and very valid points Ranger.

 

[Gregster]

@ranger, nail on the head.



Are we going to go down the route of reading again?-that didn't bode well last time for one of us.

It wasn't a try-more an observation, no point saying you are objective with the big picture when a few breaths before you were dismissive, you might kid yourself/devotees on, but it doesn't kid a lot of the others on.

You posted this thread, topic discussion is: Battle of the GPUs: Is power efficiency the new must-have?

Power efficiency can be broken down to power/heat/cost yet you are dismissing one third of the equation while stating you take into account 'the big picture' yet you put forward only 'part of the picture', why I called you out, nothing more nothing less.

If you stopped reading my posts with a dismissive POV before you have even read them, you might well see what I was saying. You seem to have an issue with me, which you are more than welcome to take to email, or the best advice is to ignore what I say. I have no interest in getting sucked into an invalid discussion because someone can't read what is what when I post and instead read what they want to read....

Everything is subjective when buying hardware, as disposable income comes into it. What features are wanted comes into it, what settings come into it, what games comes into it, what noise comes into it, what heat comes into it, what case comes into it, what PSU comes into it and probably a ton more. When I buy for myself, I go through all of them and decide from that. When suggesting for others, I try to base my own advice from the potential buyers POV, so in the realms of this thread, "Is power efficiency the new must have?" Not for me but could well be for others.

I am sure your disdain for me will find something up with that, but by all means take it to email if you have an issue with me, or try and read what I type and look from a neutral position

 

[Gregster]

It's over played into an issue in regards to bbfb when it's relatively simple, as is the rest of the points raised in this thread.

When people are placing their trust in our opinions, I don't like to waste their money on bad advice, so I try to look at what they want and what they already have. I have given advice more times than I could count and tried to be unbiased and objective for the buyers needs. You might consider it simple but I consider all angles.

I ignored the rest, as it is pointless talk

 

[Gregster]

Nothing wrong with that.



Maybe refrain from walking in and poking the 'BBFB' opinionated with a condescending stick every other occasion?

Others have the same right as you to share their advice when asked too...


Then there would be less to n fro rabble to wade through.

Ok, show me where I have done the "condescending stick" that you speak of or have rubbished others opinions. I was having a good discussion (or thought I was) and giving my opinion (which I am entitled to) on the subject at hand.

I do find it funny BTW that time and again I have read that this supposed BBFB is the defacto but when nVidia do it, it doesn't count for toffee That's my opinion and doesn't make it right or wrong.

Edit:

In fact, are you not doing what you are accusing me of?