Battlefield 3 total system resource benchmarks.

[ALXAndy]

OK. So since people are again arguing over the importance/unimportance of vram I figured I would run some tests.

These are not just benchmarks, but, a complete overview of what a system does when Battlefield 3 is running. This includes -

GPU usage.

CPU usage.

Memory usage.

Paging memory usage, and the variables with it enabled/disabled.

I mentioned in a thread before that my GTX 470 was not good enough to run Battlefield 3 at the highest settings. The first issue I had was my paging file. I had disabled it to free up space on the 60gb SSD I was using at that time. When I first tried to play Battlefield 3 it crashed giving a paging error.

Now of course, by this time I had forgotten all about the paging file as it had been months since I did it. Quick Google search turned up the problem, the game was trying to page from my virtual memory and was not getting any.

Did that mean I had run out of physical memory? or, had it used all 9gb of my ram and tried to use the paging file also?

Well, the simple answer is no. Battlefield 3 will use your paging file when it runs out of vram. It will not at any time use your physical memory for the same purpose, and today I ran tests to confirm that.

Today's tests were based around the following hardware.

Intel I7 950 @ stock.
6gb 1600mhz DDR3 triple channel.
Corsair Force II 120gb SSD.
Resolution on monitor - 1920x1080.
7970@ stock.
Windows 7 Ultimate X64.

The settings used in the game were as follows.

I chose those settings as they seem to be the ones that cause the most problems, and, lead to the vram argument/dispute in the first place.

So, let's get some scores out. This is based on Operation Swordbreaker (car park) 90 second FRAPS benchmark.

Run one. Paging file enabled.

MIN - 38 FPS

AVG - 52.333 FPS

MAX - 70 FPS

CPU usage (please note, this was only recording for maximum usage)

Physical ram usage

Vram usage - 1585mb

So, the game is only using around 50% of the memory in the computer. Funny, as when recommending memory I see people saying that you must have 8gb all the time. I have also seen plenty of people suggesting that BF3 will use up to 8gb also. As I suspected it does not.

OK. This second test is the more important one. Quite simply because I know for absolute certainty that Battlefield 3 will crash and give a paging error if the paging file is disabled in the same system, with the same hardware, running on a 1280mb GTX 470.

So the obvious test was to disable the paging file and see if I could cause the same crash. I disabled my paging file by going to the virtual memory settings here.

I then ran the same tests, on the same level, using the same hardware monitoring. The results are, let's say, very interesting indeed.

Run two. Paging file disabled.

MIN - 45 FPS

AVG - 57.156

MAX - 79

CPU usage.

Physical ram usage.

Vram usage - 1785mb

Hmm ! how strange ! Suddenly we see there were no paging errors. Even more strangely we see FPS improve across the board, with pretty much exactly the same CPU usage and physical memory usage !

But how can this be? Well, put simply in a way that every one can understand, the game can not use the paging file if it is not there.

Please try to remember this is a single player map. And it's only a small square car park with some cars in.

So why are the FPS counts higher in the run with no paging file, and why no paging file error?

Put simply the game is no longer using the paging file. I would imagine with it enabled the game uses it no matter how much vram you have. It looks like a set percentage to me in the game code, just to make sure that *most* of the textures are being loaded into vram, but with a certain percentage being laid off into the paging file just to make sure there is no memory overflow stack error.

Basically what I am saying is this. When you disable the paging file and run BF3 you do so purely based on the vram you have on your GPU. If that vram runs out (which it didn't for me, and it wouldn't either unless it uses more than 3gb at peak) then it begins to use the percentage it has allocated in your paging file.

Disable that paging file however AND run out of vram?

Your game will simply crash. So, as far as I am aware that pretty much takes care of that. With the paging file enabled we see lower vram usage and lower FPS. With it disabled we see higher vram usage and higher FPS.

Coincidence? NAH.

 

[ALXAndy]

I would obviously like to see these tests performed on more cards.

Most importantly - 1280mb cards. Would be interested to see if they run out of vram and crash with the paging file disabled.

Would also be very interested to see what the GTX 680 does in both scenarios. Obviously with the game liking faster CPUs the scores will be higher than mine would ever be if you had a new CPU, but would be very interested to see how much faster the game runs with paging disabled.

Edit. I should add that the error you will get when you have your paging file disabled and run out of vram will be a Windows low memory error. It may or may not point to a paging file error.

As an example, though, and where I started to discover that BF3 was eating vram was a post my friend made ages ago. He does post on this forum, so I haven't edited out his name. I have edited out the guy he was speaking to though, and any rude words (we don't have moderators on our local forum).

Basically a few chaps I know were switching to SSDs, and we were talking about how to free up loads of space on them by disabling certain Windows functions like hiberfil ETC.

Echo (who goes under the same name on here) disabled his paging file in 2009. He posted before BF3 came out with this.

Note. Echo runs a 5870 1gb. After BF3 came out he returned to the thread and posted this.

 

[ALXAndy]

Respect to you for doing the tests, you are taking the argument very seriously, and good for you.

So you are saying if I run this test at same settings with my 1280MB card and paging file disabled I will crash to desktop?
So the paging file is filling in for my card when it runs out of vram correct?
Its interesting you get a FPS boost by disabling the paging file though, looks like poor optimisation to me.

You will get a BF3 Appcrash (you've probably seen that one a few times before, being that the game has needed constant patching !) and a yellow ! window pop up in the bottom right corner of your screen, warning you that you are low on memory.

But, as we have clearly seen, BF3 does not even use anywhere near to 6gb. Max usage showed around 4gb. Thus, as we know (well, those of us who understand it) BF3 DOES NOT cache from your physical memory when you run out of vram. It caches from your paging file.

So, I would like to see some one stand up and tell me that caching from a hard drive is ideal, and won't hurt performance.

Because AFAIK a SSD is a lot faster than a hard drive, physical ram is a lot faster than an SSD, and Vram is faster than all of them, by a long chalk.

If any one wanted an explanation of how this caching relates back to the game? no worries.

FPS show playable levels. However, delays between you (the keyboard and mouse) soon become evident. Aiming the sniper rifle in the hostage shopping mall level for example is a nightmare on a GTX 470. It just totally ruins the game, making sure that your accuracy goes to pot.

 

[ALXAndy]

Hmmm interesting observation. I think I will try that although I have 1GB 5850 and play on high settings with few tweaks (shadow medium, motion blur, ambient occlusion disabled) at 1080p res.

Btw How to bing up that virtual memory tab?

AlxAndy can you please do similar test on caspian border 64 player as you have beefy setup compared to mine ([email protected], 1GB 5850, 4GB ram)

Type "Virtual memory" in your search bar and a help file will pop up explaining how to do it

I don't play MP mate. TBH I don't even really play Bf3 at all. I play L4D2 in co op as my main game, and play for around 5 hours a week with friends. We've got a troop going, and play all of the 3rd party campaigns

 

[ALXAndy]

Lol, a 7970 for LFD2, talk about overkill

Running 3D. With loads of DLC. You'd be surprised.

 

[ALXAndy]

To add.

https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&saf....,cf.osb&fp=6710184d572d0f7c&biw=1920&bih=955

As we can see, this problem is absolutely huge. And, it's always caused by the same issue - disabling the paging file with a GPU that doesn't have enough vram.

This guy here had 8gb system ram. Yet, he was running SLI GTX 470.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1380098&mpage=1

I rest my cases.

 

[ALXAndy]

Good test tnx!
Interesting results.

But ur tests raises more questions than it anwsers.

So ur saying that extra textures that go over your video ram limit go into page file?

Why page file? It should be main ram.

Also second run uses 200MB extra video ram. Which is strange...

If your system runs out of memory it will crash. Either that, or a long pause whilst it clears the ram and loads in the next set of instructions. THAT is how a CPU/memory work. The more cache you have on the die of your CPU the faster in theory your CPU can pick off, set up, and execute instructions.

This became so much better when the cache was no longer running at a set speed. IE - on say, a Pentium 3 the cache ran at 133mhz (as an example) and the CPU @ say, 600mhz. With the introduction of the Xeon however the cache was full speed. Cache memory however? the price would make your eyes water mate. That's why you get like 16mb a core on a high end server part.

Thus, as of right now (and not bringing up the argument again !) the 680 is going to be very clever with BF3. Why? because, the drivers for the 680 allow it to cache physical memory in the event that it runs short of vram. This is, let's say, far from ideal. However, it beats a hard drive any day !

*THAT* is probably why Nvidia only put 2gb on the 680. However, one day in the future (could even be three years from now) there could come a game that will highlight the shortcomings and thus, the 7970 will perform FAR BETTER in that game.

I know guys who bought the 2gb toxxic version of the 5870, and they have reported no problems whatsoever in BF3. You will also note the distinct lack of those cards for sale, or the 4gb 5970s.

If BF3 was to use your system memory instead of paging it could end up with you running out of memory. Remember : not every one has 8gb or even 16gb+ in their PC ! Windows has to have a suggested spec list, IIRC it's like 1gb ram for X86.

I personally ran a gaming rig with 2gb in it a while back and never saw any issues. Thus, when a game is coded it needs to be coded to remain within acceptable limits (allowing for apps and proggys to run under it without causing a memory stack overload).

Memory stack overload? basically when an application uses more than the ram it has and can't get it elsewhere. It will basically crash the computer it runs on. Not just the game, but the whole computer will become unstable.

Is 3gb overkill? yes. Right now it is. However, given that we have seen how BF3 operates it is clear that the more the merrier with vram and BF3.

I do believe that BF3 looks at how much vram you have, then allows a percentage of cached hard drive paging file to be used on top, just to make sure it has enough space to load in what it needs to. Disable it though?

That is why vram usage is higher with it disabled. As it now needs to load everything into the vram with no buffer. Thus, if you disable it with a card that doesn't carry enough vram to run the game and all of the textures it will simply crash to desktop, and Windows will give you a low memory warning.

 

[ALXAndy]

good read. i wonder if it will definitely happen to my 4870 512mb
i might try this for fun

I can absolutely guarantee it. Please be sure to take a screenshot too.

The game will run on your card with it enabled, DICE have made sure of that. It just won't run very well at all, given that it will be chewing up the page file.

Disable the page file? I absolutely assure you it will CTD and give you a Windows low memory warning.

 

[ALXAndy]

Andy,

If you want to see more numbers, have a 1GB 5850 here which I can plug into my main rig and bench against.

Gulf Of Oman 64 Player looks like a good test.

Maybe 90 seconds is too short though ?

90 seconds is enough tbh. Please, if you're using a different level, make sure you bench using both settings for the paging file.

However, I strongly suspect that with it disabled (especially in a heavy map like that) you will most certainly crash to desktop with a low memory warning.

I guess it depends on whether you can make it use that much vram in 90 seconds. It isn't hard with BF3

Also, your GPU will only show 1000mb being used as that's all it has. I would be interested to see though if Afterburner shows more, because if it does then I suspect that the caching is happening at a driver level, and not with BF3.

As I mentioned, Nvidia have come up with a way to let the card cache physical ram. Which whilst less than ideal beats a page file hands down any day

So, another answer can be gained from you running the test, simply by looking at your vram usage in GPUZ.

 

[ALXAndy]

AlxAndy - You are in no way certified or knowledgeable enough to comment on the numbers you are reading. Do you even understand the core system functions behind them?

90 seconds is also the most ridiculous time period I have ever seen from which to gather meaningful FPS averages over. The Heaven benchmarl run is what, 250 seconds? My average FPS can deviate +/-20 FPS over the course of those 5 minutes and you are pulling supposedly MEANINGFUL stats from a fraction of the time with difference of +/- ~8FPS.

If you are going to do it, at least do it properly.

I pointed out that it was not a benchmark. Quite clearly as system specs differ wildly. What it was, however, was a demonstration of vram usage and a display of how BF3 uses lots of it.

How about you do something meaningful, and try the same tests and post the results?

Same goes for any one who wants to argue the toss. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[ALXAndy]

Blah blah blah waffle waffle drone drone.

Either do something meaningful or go away, troll.

 

[ALXAndy]

Yup, had a similar issue here, needed more RAM to sort out the issue.

Going from 4 to 8GB RAM solved it entirely.

Totally unrelated to VRAM though as the game was using below 2GB of the dedicated memory (Radeon 6950 unlocked 2GB).

OK fair enough. However, this thread was to show how when you run out of vram the game in question will cache from your page file. And, how more vram is used when it is disabled as caching is eliminated.

 

[ALXAndy]

played caspian bf3 on high preset on my lowly 4870 512mb
max usage i saw on afterburner was 501mb
played about 5minutes and I had to stop since the slideshow is making feel sick and dizzy
I didnt experienced the crash but i think the short playtime may be a factor

my specs are:
stock 2500k
8gb ram
4870 512mb

Did you disable your page file? Memory usage is about right for a 512mb card. Windows is running underneath. Basically you are using all of your vram and then BF3 is caching the rest into your paging file.

 

[ALXAndy]

I am not intimate with the inner workings of Windows file system and would not dare comment on numbers pulled from resource monitor without knowing the technology like the back of my hand.

I am not a GPU engineer or a file system engineer and therefore can draw no meaningful conclusions, as you cannot.

Many apps will not run properly without a Page File irrespective of whether they NEED it or not. Simply concluding BF3 needs the VRAM because without the page file in supposed VRAM limited situations BF3 crashes is ridiculous.

Then why is it that so many people received that error on cards with 1gb vram because their page file was disabled?

I did not conclude anything. I have posted some figures. They clearly show how much vram is being used on the same level on the same computer in two different scenarios.

I don't need to be an engineer to know that when a game runs short of vram it will cache textures elsewhere. This has been a long known fact. This is also why onboard graphics never replaced the add in card, because sharing system memory is pants. Sharing a hard drive paging file is even more pants.

Infact, on my 9800GT it actually took a lump of system ram to add onto the 512mb it had. Windows system info showed how much it had taken, too.

What is clear, and is obvious, is that BF3 uses the paging file. Google low memory error battlefield 3, and you will find out how many people found that out because they had disabled their paging file.

What is also clear is that BF3 most certainly uses over 1280mb of vram.

And, I have shown that today. So, unless you want to counter with the same tests showing different results?

Stop trying to drag the issue sideways and make it complicated. This is a nice easy, simple way of making it uncomplicated.

If you disable the paging file and run out of memory you will receive errors saying so. Meaning that clearly it has gone over the amount of vram on the card and has tried pulling it from elsewhere.

 

[ALXAndy]

Yea pagefile was disabled when i ran it

either way gonna revert everything back to previous settings later after i recover lol

plus it wont matter much for me soon as im planning on upgrading

I just found out that DICE patched the game to stop the low memory warning. Thus, I would imagine the game now does what you say it does when it runs out, and grind to a halt, waiting to catch up.

 

[ALXAndy]

No, it means the game ran out of shared memory.

Upgrade your RAM to 8GB and the crashes will be gone.

I would be interested to see if it helps any.

Very interested indeed. TBH personally I don't hold out much hope. Quite simply as with my paging file disabled I only managed to pull around 3.8gb total system memory with 6gb installed.

 

[ALXAndy]

Before you start disabling your page file please read this.



http://lifehacker.com/5426041/understanding-the-windows-pagefile-and-why-you-shouldnt-disable-it

Full article. Well worth a read.

Greg. What we are demonstrating here basically mimics that ^

IE - if you run an app that runs out of resources and it tries to use the paging file and finds it isn't there it will crash.

In other words - we are demonstrating that BF3 will use it when you run out of vram. Meaning, you are using more than your GPU has. Meaning, if it does so with a 1gb GPU then it obviously needs more than 1gb.

The end result? it IS caching from your paging file. Which WILL hurt performance.

Sure, the game will still run on a 1gb card. It will just be utter pants. See also this -

This thread demonstrates how Gibbo managed to come up with those results. Quite clearly because the 1gb card is using the paging file, and it is hurting performance.

 

[ALXAndy]

And how much physical RAM did they have installed.

Probably less than 4GB. They compromised their OSes ability to run when BF3 eat NORMAL PHYSICAL RAM and had NO PAGE FILE to back it up.

It's people clutching at straws like yourself who take an absolutely predictable outcome of disabling the pagefile in a system with low physical memory while running a RAM intensive game to link it to the necessity of more than 2GB of VRAM.

Maybe you should have read the link to the EVGA forum earlier ? the one where the guy was running 8gb ram with SLI GTX 470 and got the page file error?

TBH I will wait to see if any one can replicate that error with 8gb ram and their paging file disabled. Because I've seen it on 6gb running a 470, yet didn't get it with my 7970.

 

[ALXAndy]

What you are demonstrating is encouraging people who actually read your text to disable the page file in windows and cause system instability.

Great advice when windows crashes and they maybe have to repair it

Windows will not crash. The game will close, and you will get a warning. You then simply turn it back on and reboot.

And I'm not twisting any arms.

You know, it's quite funny really. I'm beginning to feel that whenever you post something that clearly shows something the same people turn up to argue.

Already got a huge pile of troll posts.

If you don't want to run the tests then don't bother. Actions speak louder than words. If, however, you have a 1gb or 1280mb GPU and 8gb of memory (to put that part of it to bed) then by all means, test away and post the results.

 

[ALXAndy]

Right. Thread is being deliberately derailed, so I have started reporting troll posts.