BBC -vs- Massa . . . according to the BBC

stockhausen said:
. . . or Schumacher & Hill in Adelaide in '94
. . . or Schumacher & Villenueve in Jerez in '97

That sort of thing you mean? ;)


Do please forgive the appropriate use of capital letters :p
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I think you mean Schumacher trying to destroy Hill ('97 wasnt actually dangerous after all,.....and it backfired)
 
stockhausen said:
. . . or Schumacher & Hill in Adelaide in '94
. . . or Schumacher & Villenueve in Jerez in '97

That sort of thing you mean? ;)


Do please forgive the appropriate use of capital letters :p
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No they are certainly not the same, MS made those decisions alone, he was not told by the team to ram anyone he was more than capable of deciding that was the best idea all by himself :)

But he is right DC was out at Spa to get in the way of MS, about 10 laps down or something lol
 
Mr Men said:
Nobody said he was? unless you are seeing things again?
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Were you not trying to state that the MS incidents were different to the Massa one because MS made his own decision, while Massa was told to ram someone by his team?

If not, who was the 'told to ram someone off by his team' comment aimed at?
 
Skeeter said:
Were you not trying to state that the MS incidents were different to the Massa one because MS made his own decision, while Massa was told to ram someone by his team?

If not, who was the 'told to ram someone off by his team' comment aimed at?
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Try and keep up, the discussion had changed to MS, DC, Hill and JV as you can see from the post I quoted.

MS was not told to ram Hill and JV, he took that decision alone.

DC was sent back out at Spa to annoy MS, clearly which is why he ignored blue flags and drove so slowly.

DC even apologised for it many years later when Alonso done it to him IIRC, he was sent back out many laps down as a spoiler.
 
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Whilst I appreciate the audio probably has been taken out of context, here's a question.

Wouldn't it have been better to word it to Massa so that it was an instruction telling him to race harder to keep LH behind rather than use the word "destroy"?

That way you don't tend to whip the media up into such a frenzy.

Either way, Massa should be racing as hard as he can for himself and his team, not trying to obstruct another driver. After all, if you block someone from passing, isn't that normally a drive-through?
 
Tute said:
Either way, Massa should be racing as hard as he can for himself and his team, not trying to obstruct another driver. After all, if you block someone from passing, isn't that normally a drive-through?
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Not if they are on the same lap racing for position, Lewis was told in qual not to let anyone pass in Suzuka, much the same thing really :)
 
Ah, so you were comparing the (quoted) MS incidents to the (un quoted) DC/MS incident, and not the Massa incident this thread was about. My bad, got my wires cross

And last time I checked, a blue flag meant you had to drive slower to let the guy past. Driving into the back of someone who was going at consistent speed on a consistent line is surely just a mistake on the pat of the guy behind?
 
Tute said:
Whilst I appreciate the audio probably has been taken out of context, here's a question.

Wouldn't it have been better to word it to Massa so that it was an instruction telling him to race harder to keep LH behind rather than use the word "destroy"?

That way you don't tend to whip the media up into such a frenzy.
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No. The media have whipped their own frenzy up from a completely out of context comment. If Hamilton hadn't his Massa, then this would be completely ignored. Aggressive language is used all the time over the radio to/from drivers.

Either way, Massa should be racing as hard as he can for himself and his team, not trying to obstruct another driver. After all, if you block someone from passing, isn't that normally a drive-through?
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Massa was racing for his team. And just Lol at your idea that blocking someone from passing is a drive through. Its called racing. And anyway, Massa didn't make any sort of block on Hamilton, Hamilton just got it wrong all on his own.
 
Skeeter said:
Ah, so you were comparing the (quoted) MS incidents to the (un quoted) DC/MS incident, and not the Massa incident this thread was about. My bad, got my wires cross

And last time I checked, a blue flag meant you had to drive slower to let the guy past. Driving into the back of someone who was going at consistent speed on a consistent line is surely just a mistake on the pat of the guy behind?
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The post I quoted was easy enough to understand, but no problems.

No blue flag does not mean that, if you are seeing a blue flag then you are already slower naturally, does not mean you drive even slower. Blue flag means a faster car is behind and you should let it pass.

DC admitted he lifted off on the racing line, he was not going a consistent speed at all, but again don't let the facts get in the way of anything :D
 
Mr Men said:
Blue flag means a faster car is behind and you should let it pass.
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During qualifying, yes. During the race, it means you are being lapped. It has no bearing on your speed, its entirely dependant on track position. Other wise, how would people un lap themselves?

don't let the facts get in the way of anything :D
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Ironic.

I'm well aware of the 13 year old argument you are tyring to dig up again here, and not only is it yet another pointless round and round argument, its utterly unrelated to the topic of this thread, so I suggest we both just drop it, and hope Arknor doesn't try to drag the thread off topic again.
 
Tute said:
Either way, Massa should be racing as hard as he can for himself and his team, not trying to obstruct another driver
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Out of this whole mountain out of a mole hill story, that is pretty much what annoys me about the whole thing. So long as Alonso is ahead of Massa he is never going to be able to race his own race. The Japanese GP thread had a lot of comments about how good Massa really is & so long as he is at Ferrari playing monkey to Alonso I don't think we will ever find out. I can't see any issue with a driver being told to try keep someone else behind but the wording is pretty clear to Massa on how badly he should try keep Hamilton back. It wasn't malicious but I do think the outcome was inevitable when trying to keep someone like Hamilton at bay.
 
Skeeter said:
During qualifying, yes. During the race, it means you are being lapped. It has no bearing on your speed, its entirely dependant on track position. Other wise, how would people un lap themselves?

Ironic.

I'm well aware of the 13 year old argument you are tyring to dig up again here, and not only is it yet another pointless round and round argument, its utterly unrelated to the topic of this thread, so I suggest we both just drop it, and hope Arknor doesn't try to drag the thread off topic again.
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Blue flag does not mean go slower and lift on the racing line, DC admitted it and said sorry. If you are not slower in the race you will not see blue flags, simples.

I never dug up the argument.
 
Pete19s said:
Out of this whole mountain out of a mole hill story, that is pretty much what annoys me about the whole thing. So long as Alonso is ahead of Massa he is never going to be able to race his own race. The Japanese GP thread had a lot of comments about how good Massa really is & so long as he is at Ferrari playing monkey to Alonso I don't think we will ever find out. I can't see any issue with a driver being told to try keep someone else behind but the wording is pretty clear to Massa on how badly he should try keep Hamilton back. It wasn't malicious but I do think the outcome was inevitable when trying to keep someone like Hamilton at bay.
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I agree, but there are some people taking the whole thing far too seriously, which is why I decided to end my part in the discussion.
 
Mr Men said:
Blue flag does not mean go slower and lift on the racing line, DC admitted it and said sorry. If you are not slower in the race you will not see blue flags, simples.

I never dug up the argument.
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Yes you could, getting a puncture or anything that puts you out of position could mean the guy with the fastest pace in the field ends up almost a lap down. However, if he pulls out of the pits in front of the leader, he is still getting a blue flag.

Arknor set the seed, you picked up on it and have carried on. I'm suggesting for the good of the forums, we drop it.
 
Skeeter said:
Yes you could, getting a puncture or anything that puts you out of position could mean the guy with the fastest pace in the field ends up almost a lap down. However, if he pulls out of the pits in front of the leader, he is still getting a blue flag.

Arknor set the seed, you picked up on it and have carried on. I'm suggesting for the good of the forums, we drop it.
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LOL blue flag still does not mean slow down, and if the fastest guy overtakes then he won't get blue flags if he is faster than the car behind, blue flag meand faster car behind, faster being the operative wording.
 
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