Best component for speaker clarity?

[Mayh3M]

I'm using a Maximus Hero IX for my sound connected to a Orbitsound M10LX soundbar. I'm looking for a superior sound experience with a focus on audio clarity.

I mostly game and listen to some music, but as I said I prefer clarity above all else.

I would like to avoid buying a sound card because I don't want to clutter my case / reduce GPU airflow. Is there an external component I could buy to improve my onboard audio?

I'm also open to buying new speakers but I don't have too much space on my desk so I don't think there's much in the way of an upgrade there.

 

[Sc00p007]

I'd say that the best price/performance upgrade for sound is better speakers. If you upgrade your sound card, you may hear slightly better sound. With the speakers, all will be able to tell the upgrade difference. With a new sound card, many will not tell a difference.

 

[Marsman]

From what I can see it looks to be as though the M10LX has optical, which I assume you are using?

Assuming that is correct, then buying a sound card, whether it be internal or external will be of no benefit because you are using a digital connection to the soundbar.

By using the optical out on a motherboard, you aren't actually using the onboard audio at all. The DAC (digital to analogue converter) inside the soundbar is responsible for the sound quality when using optical connection.

Optical is a digital connection, which means audio data is being sent, not an actual audio signal in the sense that sound quality applies. When people talk of buying a sound card for better sound quality improvement over onboard audio, that applies only to analogue output. You don't buy a sound card that outputs better sound quality via a digital output, because it's data, 1s and 0s.

A DAC exists in all sound cards and audio products that have analogue outputs, which converts the digital audio data into a analogue signal, which is then sent to an amplifier (internal or external, whichever applies), then eventually is converted into sound waves by speakers or headphones.

You would need to use any analogue input to benefit from a sound card, or a separate external DAC. However, it's not as simple as just buying a better sound card or DAC though, because buying something that has a better DAC than the one found inside the soundbar, won't necessarily translate into improved the sound quality. Generally, audio products that have a built in DAC, will be of good enough quality for the product. If you upgrade to a better DAC, then the output (speakers/headphones) have to be capable of allowing that better sound quality to be heard.

The real gains are going to be with better speakers or headphones, then work backwards.

 

[hornetstinger]

Crap in, crap out.

Your final sound quality is as only good as the source, or components before the speakers. There's little point in having HD audio, and expensive DAC if you just have a soundbar.

I'd recommend something like a AVR and passive speakers, something like Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 or Q Acoustics 2000/3000 series.

 

[Mayh3M]

Can you guys spec me some speakers and/or DAC then? I'm willing to spend around £300 for a quality setup.

Those speakers you listed have amazing reviews and great prices but they are too tall for my desk. The maximum height I can fit is 20cm.

 

[Marsman]

I don't think there's much choice of passive speakers that will come under 200mm in height. I can only think of Monitor Audio Radius 90. They are £350 though and you'd still need an amplifier; so you might end up spending £500+ on those.

Some active/powered speakers with 3" woofers, like Audioengine A2+, might be the best choice given the height restriction. Good small speakers, although not a patch on the Radius 90. Certainly more budget friendly though.

 

[hornetstinger]

Even Wharfe Diamond 9.0 are 23cm tall, and those are tiny speakers. You really don't want to go for tiny tiny little speakers.

 

[Mayh3M]

OK, change of plan. I'm buying a bigger desk, so size is no longer an issue.

There seems to be a strong recommendation for the JBL LSR305 which I can buy for just over £200. What do you guys think?

 

[Marsman]

Yeah, they are good speakers; especially if you don't want to bother with a separate amplifier like you would with passive speakers.

However, being monitor speakers, they may benefit from a balanced source, which you won't get without buying an audio interface as well.

It's hard to know how such speakers are going to behave when connected to a particular PCs onboard audio or internal sound card. Some people get what is known as a ground loop. Another member recently had this trouble with a pair of Rokit monitor speakers. Buying an Scarlett Focusrite 2i2 solved the problem, but that adds another £120 on top of what you spend on the speakers.

Even if you ended up not needing one, you'd be using onboard audio by connecting to the motherboard, as the speakers have no digital input. Good speakers that don't have their own DAC, surely need something better than onboard audio really. An audio interface is essentially a sound card aimed more for music production, but no reason not to use it just as a DAC for speakers for purposes other than music production. Of course no need to buy an audio interface if there is no group loop when using onboard audio; in which case a decent budget DAC will be fine.

Placement should be taken into consideration when using rear ported speakers.

I would be temped by the JBL's myself, but they are a bit too large for my desk. They are deep speakers and need space at the rear because they are rear ported, so they can't just be pushed close up to a wall; otherwise that will likely result in boomy bass. They may need to be a few inches away from a back wall.

 

[Mayh3M]

So is that the audio interface you would recommend if I were to buy one? I don't want to go much more than £100 for one ideally. Is there one that's not so... red?

 

[JasonM]

This is the order of priority

Speakers, then room placement getting them at ear height etc
Amp
Source

For anyone that does not believe the above, i'll show you a way to prove to yourself that speakers are the priority. You will need access to two music systems, a higher end one and a average one.

Anyone reading this that considers they have a good HiFi / music system, lets say your £2k+ worth of gear in front room. Go on You Tube and find some music that's been ripped onto YouTube that was originally from VHS tape. Listen to it and hear what it sounds like.

Then find the same track and play it from Spotify or CD, but play on your average system, then listen to it.

Then compare between your two systems.

You Tube / VHS Rip -> £2k+ Music system
CD / Spotify (same track) -> £100-£200 desktop speakers.

Providing the YouTube VHS rip was of reasonable quality your higher end music system will sound better then the cheaper system playing from CD, proving it's the speakers (and also there placement) that's more important than the source.

 

[Marsman]

So is that the audio interface you would recommend if I were to buy one? I don't want to go much more than £100 for one ideally. Is there one that's not so... red?

Just looking at the JBL's again, I can't see any unbalanced inputs (I thought they did have both, as many other studio monitors do), so an interface with balanced outputs is definitely required.

Anyway; You don't have to get the Focusrite one specifically. Roland Duo Capture EX is black and the same price. There are some cheaper ones for less than £100, but they tend not to have balanced outputs. Usually, just RCA; which is unbalanced.

Edit: Looks like Behringer do audio interfaces with balanced outputs for less than £100. U-Phoria UMC204HD, for around £80.

 

[mistersprinkles]

1)That's a cheap soundbar and you're not going to get any better sound out of it

2) One option you have if you haven't done so already is to run optical out to it instead of analog, to see if that helps (it won't).

 

[Mayh3M]

Does it make a difference if I buy the JBL LSR305s individually or do I have to buy them as a pair? They're cheaper if I buy them individually so I was wondering about that. Also what cables do I need exactly to connect to an audio interface? I'll probably buy everything on gears4music.com, buy they have a zillion cables. What do TRS/RCA/balanced/unbalanced etc. mean?

What do these audio interfaces do exactly? I can see they have lots of features but all I want is good sound and a large volume knob ideally. The Scarlett 2i2 has a nice big one so I might go for that. How does it compare to the Roland Duo Capture EX (which apparently doesn't come with a plug...)?

 

[Marsman]

Studio monitor speakers aren't paired unless they come in the same box. Whether you buy two at the same time or one from one retailer and another from a different retailer, one now and another in a few weeks, months or years time, doesn't matter; as long as that particular model is still being manufactured.

An audio interface is essentially a sound card, but aimed at music production. Some have more features than others and get more sophisticated the higher you go. They don't need to be used for music production purposes though. You can just connect studio monitor speakers and away you go. For those people who won't use an interface for music production but will want to use a microphone, then that needs to be taken into consideration, as I don't think you can connect any standard microphone that many use for, let's say gaming. I think you need to use a microphone aimed more at professional use. Just for use with studio monitor speakers, an interface is a great choice.

There are many different manufacturers of audio interface, but within each price point, many are likely as good as each other. Some do offer a wider range than others. Choice probably comes down to features and maybe brand preference.

The Roland Duo can use one of three power sources; mains, USB or batteries. Doesn't come with the mains adaptor, so you can use USB. Doesn't have the nice satisfying large volume knob of the Focusrite though. There is a Roland Rubix 22, which does have a larger volume knob; although not as large as the Focusrite.

As for connection type: RCA is also known as phono, which is an unbalanced connection. TRS stands for tip ring sleeve. That's what 3.5mm and 6.35mm jack's are and can be used for balanced and unbalanced.

Unbalanced has two wires per channel; left and ground, right and ground; so most headphones and HiFi speakers.

Balanced has three wires per channel, commonly known as hot, cold and ground. The idea is that interference is more easily rejected than it is with unbalanced.

You'll need two 6.35mm to 6.35mm stereo cables. http://www.gear4music.com/G4M/Stereo-Jack-Stereo-Jack-Cable-1m/10AN

Doesn't have to be that one specifically, but that one will do the job fine. There's longer lengths if you require.

 

[Mayh3M]

Cheers, I've learned a lot.

I have no interest in music production, so the only feature I'm looking for really is having balanced audio. The cheapest audio interface that has this should suffice? In my case a higher end model won't offer better sound quality, just more features, if I'm understanding this correctly. Mic functionality could be something I'd want in future though.

So I could just buy the cheapest with balanced audio and use Windows for volume control.

Does that work? If so, how can I tell which audio interfaces have balanced audio? What's the keyword in the description? Just need the cheapest.

 

[Marsman]

Not sure I'd look at anything cheaper than a Behringer UMC202HD. The UMC22, which is cheaper doesn't appear to have any dedicated drivers.

Another option would be to look at different speakers that have unbalanced input, to which you can just add an inexpensive DAC via optical connection to your PC; or you could consider passive speakers like the Q Acoustics hornetstinger mentioned, then get a small amplifier like SMSL Q5 Pro DAC/amplifier, if the cost of the LSR305 + audio interface seeems a little high.

 

[Mayh3M]

I'm pretty set on the LSR305s. I've been after good speakers for a very long time and only stuck with a soundbar because of my previous desk's lack of space. It seems to be praised everywhere I look, with people recommending it above more expensive speakers like the Audioengine A5+, and other studio monitors that look better like the Yamaha HS5, which isn't as versatile.

I'm happy to pay more than I was initially willing, if the setup is worth it. That seems to be the case here. I think I'll just go for the Scarlett 2i2 since that's what everyone seems to be pairing it with: https://homestudiobasics.com/focusrite-scarlett-2i2/

 

[Marsman]

For the sake of £40-£60, I'd say it's got to be worth paying that over one of the cheaper Behringer's. Not that the Behringer's aren't any good, but the Scarlett 2i2 does get a lot of recommendations, and for good reason I'm sure.

 

[Matkinson]

Got the JBL LSR305s myself, very good for the price. Always get the upgrade itch, but when I hear much more expensive speakers, I can't bring myself to do it!

In reality, you don't really need an interface, I've run them direct RCA into the back of my pc with no issues.

Don't bother with the Audioengines, not even close to the JBLs.

The yamahas are not what I would be looking at either, as they're definitely more for mixing (IMO) than music enjoyment.

Either way, the JBLs with be on another planet compared to your soundbar if clarity is what you're striving for.