best isp that supply modem router to play nice with mesh

bigmike20vt · 23 Oct 2022 at 23:55

Hi.
I have 2 tends mesh WiFi cubes.
I also have now broadband which uses a rebadged old sky router which can't act in bridge mode.

I am at a point where I can change and wondering if any supply a modem router which plays nice with mesh as I keep getting WiFi drop outs.
signal shows excellent but the WiFi does not work either for a few mins or until I turn on and off the WiFi again. I can only guess it's a double nat issue but I won't lie... I am out of my depth.

my house is wired up for wired internet so pc and media centre are fine, this is for tablets, phone and also if I can get quest 2 working better over wi-fi that would be great.

thanks.

nutsnut · 24 Oct 2022 at 01:24

Can you not put the tends into Access point mode rather than router mode?

Then you can just disable wireless on the sky router. That would solve your double nat issue and stop DHCP twice.

bigmike20vt · 24 Oct 2022 at 07:36

hi thanks for the suggestion. that is what I tried last night as it happens. I did a quick Google and I found 1 article saying this works but only for one mesh device and you cant use more than one this way. however I am doing it anyway to see if it makes a difference.

nutsnut · 24 Oct 2022 at 18:50

I have to link mesh, but that allows to me use all three nodes in ap point mode. Hope it works for you.

a1ex2001 · 27 Oct 2022 at 23:57

nutsnut said:
I have to link mesh, but that allows to me use all three nodes in ap point mode. Hope it works for you.

I have this it works well and makes it easy when switching isp to Simply plug in the new router and disable it’s Wi-Fi. I would never want to be tied to an isp!

WJA96 · 28 Oct 2022 at 04:05

It’s almost impossible to believe that whoever you are with you cannot get the login credentials and use an Openreach modem (either ECI or Huawei) or something like a Vigor 130 and then your mesh system primary node can be your router.

dl8860 · 2 Nov 2022 at 14:16

WJA96 said:
It’s almost impossible to believe that whoever you are with you cannot get the login credentials and use an Openreach modem (either ECI or Huawei) or something like a Vigor 130 and then your mesh system primary node can be your router.

I'm in the same situation as OP and everything I've read points to Sky doing their best just not playing ball with any sort of modem only solution, it's something to do with option 61 DHCP.

And if you set up your mesh as APs, then they just work as APs, not a mesh. So defeats the object.

@bigmike20vt I never found anything definitive for reference, but there's lots of threads like this around and apparently some modems can be configured to do it, though in most cases it's not simple. I've read so many threads on it but never got around to tackling it myself as the double NAT doesn't seem to give me many issues. Occasional IP config issues but nothing I can't live with ... for now..

Here's an example that is solved

Sky Broadband Board | Sky Community

Spending more time at home and need to get the most out of your Broadband? Look no further - Sky Community has you covered.

helpforum.sky.com

It's appalling that sky don't have a dedicated help topic on this.

Caged · 2 Nov 2022 at 14:25

Option 61 is old news now. For the majority of the Sky network, and every single FTTP connection, as long as you have a router that requests an IPv6 prefix delegation it will 'wake up' the IPv4 DHCP service and allocate an address.

dl8860 · 2 Nov 2022 at 14:40

Caged said:
Option 61 is old news now. For the majority of the Sky network, and every single FTTP connection, as long as you have a router that requests an IPv6 prefix delegation it will 'wake up' the IPv4 DHCP service and allocate an address.

Are you talking about a router rather than a modem only unit which goes between your ISP connection and your primary home router? Because I'm talking about the latter. Very possible that I'm confused though.

Caged · 2 Nov 2022 at 14:47

The modem doesn't care what ISP you use, you can use an Openreach FTTC modem or something like a Vigor 130 with Sky without any trouble, as long as your router is able to request addresses correctly.

dl8860 · 2 Nov 2022 at 15:05

Caged said:
The modem doesn't care what ISP you use, you can use an Openreach FTTC modem or something like a Vigor 130 with Sky without any trouble, as long as your router is able to request addresses correctly.

OK, but when you say router there, do you actually mean a modem which is also a router? As opposed to say the primary router in my mesh system, which doesn't act as a modem at all.

So if I want my routing (i.e. DHCP) to be handled by my mesh primary router, I want a modem only modem. And that's what needs to be able to request the addresses correctly like you say? So an option 61 compliant modem/router would work, and I just set that to modem only mode?

Or have I got it totally wrong and it is the actual 'router' which needs to be option 61 compliant?

Caged · 2 Nov 2022 at 19:13

No, I mean router. The router has to be able to request an IPv6 prefix. I very much doubt any of the mesh kits where one node elects itself to be the router have enough configuration options to be able to do this - even if something like a TP Link Deco setup is capable of receiving an IPv6 delegated prefix, it might only be something that is configured as part of some automatic setup wizard that won't even work properly if IPv4 isn't there.

dl8860 · 3 Nov 2022 at 09:17

Caged said:
No, I mean router. The router has to be able to request an IPv6 prefix. I very much doubt any of the mesh kits where one node elects itself to be the router have enough configuration options to be able to do this - even if something like a TP Link Deco setup is capable of receiving an IPv6 delegated prefix, it might only be something that is configured as part of some automatic setup wizard that won't even work properly if IPv4 isn't there.

So my current mesh setup (Huawei AX3) is only able to work ok because my sky hub modem/router is doing DHCP? And if I replaced the sky hub with a modem only (e.g. openreach modem or vigor 130 like you said) in bridge mode, the mesh router wouldn't manage ok?

Caged · 3 Nov 2022 at 09:39

I don't know what your mesh router is capable of, so I can't answer that. If the AX3 can request an IPv6 prefix then it should work without issue.

sandys · 4 Nov 2022 at 01:49

dl8860 said:
It's appalling that sky don't have a dedicated help topic on this.

When I was with Sky it was against their Terms and Conditions to use anything but provided gear, most likely because they don't want the support headaches, so that'll be why there is no help topic.

WJA96 · 4 Nov 2022 at 04:28

dl8860 said:
OK, but when you say router there, do you actually mean a modem which is also a router? As opposed to say the primary router in my mesh system, which doesn't act as a modem at all.

So if I want my routing (i.e. DHCP) to be handled by my mesh primary router, I want a modem only modem. And that's what needs to be able to request the addresses correctly like you say? So an option 61 compliant modem/router would work, and I just set that to modem only mode?

Or have I got it totally wrong and it is the actual 'router' which needs to be option 61 compliant?

You‘ve not got it wrong. What you are doing is over-simplifying. Routing is multiple protocols of which DHCP is just the part that assigns IP addresses, tells the clients the extent of the network and where they can expect to find the way out of the local network to other networks. DHCP itself is not routing, it’s the automatic configuration of the client devices by the router. Hence you can switch DHCP off and still have a fully working network.

You are also conflating the generic hardware term “router” which to most people means the box supplied by the ISP that they hid behind the TV. Within the “router” you may have a modem, a VPN client, a firewall, a router, a switch and a wireless access point. And lots more! And they all do different things that you, as the content consumer don’t need or generally want to know about because it’s actually lots of protocols bodged together just doing stuff so you can stream content and play games.

Finally, you are mixing up your servers and your clients with regard to DHCP option 61.

In the same way that your Sky ISP “router” runs DHCP for your internal local area network (LAN) Sky’s ISP servers are running DHCP for their clients (you) and they give your “router” a single wide area network (WAN) IP address that another protocol in your router tags onto all your external network traffic so Sky’s routers know where you send and receive your data to/from. Part of that WAN DHCP is when your “router” box first contacts Sky’s DHCP server it says “Hi” and Sky’s DHCP server says “Hello, who are you? and what proof do you have you can have data from Sky?” And your router box says “I’m a Sky supplied device and I choose Option 61 to identify myself and my hardware ID is xxxxxxxx“. Sky’s DHCP server then says “I do/do not know that hardware ID, you can/can not have data intercourse with me”. And that’s Option 61 for beginners. So in effect Option 61 is as much a function of Sky’s router as yours. Your “router” has to be able to give Sky some form of hardware ID that Sky will accept as proof of membership so you can come into their network and move data across it.

So you are not wrong, just over-simplifying.

a1ex2001 · 4 Nov 2022 at 07:49

dl8860 said:
And if you set up your mesh as APs, then they just work as APs, not a mesh. So defeats the object.

My tp-link mesh is set in access point mode and works fine as a mesh, the first node is hardwired to my isp router (Wi-Fi disabled) and the other two talk to it and connections pass seamlessly round the house.