Best reasonably priced upscaler for a Sega Megadrive / N64?

[eagleuk]

Hi guys,

I'm after some form of HDMI upscaler for a Sega Megadrive ( gen 1 ) and a N64.

They look pretty poor on my TVs and I'm after something ideally sub £60-70. I'd be open to HDMI modding myself but seems that's even more expensive.

Couldn't find anything much decent secondhand, so if anyone has some recommendations or insights let me please let me know.

 

[JoeBoi]

The open source scan converter is supposed to be good.

The Rad2x cables have received a lot of praise recently and could be a cost effective sollution for specific consoles. Saves you buying a decent scart cable for each console, on top of the OSSC.

With the N64 you should consider an RGB mod as well. The Tim Worthington mod has a deblur option which works quite well at providing a cleaner image on the N64 games (due to their AA solution).

 

[vanpeebles]

Those metal boxes you see on amazon and ebay are ok for the money, scart to hdmi. like a flat metal square shape.

 

[eagleuk]

The open source scan converter is supposed to be good.

The Rad2x cables have received a lot of praise recently and could be a cost effective sollution for specific consoles. Saves you buying a decent scart cable for each console, on top of the OSSC.

With the N64 you should consider an RGB mod as well. The Tim Worthington mod has a deblur option which works quite well at providing a cleaner image on the N64 games (due to their AA solution).

Seem I would need the RGB mod done to use the OSSC which may well be the route to take. Thanks for the info!

 

[JoeBoi]

Seem I would need the RGB mod done to use the OSSC which may well be the route to take. Thanks for the info!

No worries, OSSC can be quite an investment but useful for multiple systems.

The other thing to consider though is NTSC vs PAL region consoles. Quite a difference between the two in terms of different resolution and Hz output. Some mods can change the Hz output but I am not sure about the resolution signals.

If you want anything outside of a quick nostalgic fix and plan on playing retro games regularly via original hardware, I find PAL consoles a bit jarring compared to todays standards. NTSC is definitely the way to go if you can.

Personally I use a Framemeister with a NTSC N64 and the TW RGB mod. I can vouch for it being decent but don't expect miracles as the N64 does look a tad rough still! I've tried my PAL Mega Drive 2 and have not had the best results, image looks great upscaled but mine keeps cutting out and the sound is slightly messed up, something I'd like to look into at some point, might just be a dodgy cable or capacitor.

Retro Gaming Cables provide good quality cables and are considered one of the best in the business. I'd recommend checking those out. They sell the Rad 2x occasionally and are supposed to be really good, might provide a decent solution for your MD1.

My life in gaming YouTube channel can be a useful resource for retro gaming on modern displays. Well worth checking out if you're interested.

Outside of all of this there are plenty of decent emulators out there and Retro-bit sell decent replica Mega Drive controllers. Might be the best route if you want to keep costs down and avoid the faff .

Edit: I forgot to add the Rad 2x might be a good option for playing on original hardware and keeping the cost down, if you plan on using a few consoles. The Nintendo one works across multiple consoles but the Sega and Sony ones are for particular consoles. From what I understand these are great upscallers and almost lag free. I'd consider this as a great option on original hardware as you wouldn't have to invest in multiple scart cables to use with an OSSC.

Second edit: If I get some time this week, I'll try and upload a comparison on the N64 between composite and RGB scart (with deblur and without) via the Framemeister. Might give you an idea on whether or not it is worth pursuing in the first place.

 

[Haze]

I brought a pre modded N64 on ebay about a month ago, really good

worth looking at getting something an ED64 cartridge for it

 

[JoeBoi]

I brought a pre modded N64 on ebay about a month ago, really good

worth looking at getting something an ED64 cartridge for it

Haze does the ED64 have an option for auto IPS patches to remove AA at a software level?

I know the Everdrives do, failing that can use gameshark / action replay codes.

 

[jellybeard999]

RetroTink ?

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

I'd highly recommend the OSSC. It is more than you are looking to spend, but not enormously so ("ideally £70" - OSSC is €110/£99.26) and is fantastic.
Well worth the extra thirty quid for sure.

I use it to display a Mega Drive 2 on an ultrawide monitor, and it's perfectly crisp, has no lag, and you have a ton of options to customise.

It has to be said, it can be wildy complicated if you choose for it to be, but there are plaenty of online guides/YouTube videos that you can simply follow by the letter and so it shouldn't be intimidating.

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

This might be useful when making your decision.

 

[Guest2]

Wouldnt upscaling take away from the ‘retroness’?

A small good quality (thinking Sony) CRT would be the way to go.

Play how older consoles were 25 years sgo

 

[IICIIEII]

Some CRTs are amazing to plug the old systems but nowadays I am using a OSSC with a 4K TV and my Megadrive/Mega CD combo. Sure, pixels are the size of peas, but I am really happy with the results. I am from Spain, in there I keep one of those massive Trinitron TVs I bought just for old systems in the early 2000s (the last units were super cheap because nobody wanted them). That is the perfect way to go, in my opinion, but sadly it is so massive and heavy (more than 100kg) that moving it is out of question. After testing many alternatives, I found the OSSC to be very convenient .

 

[Guest2]

Some CRTs are amazing to plug the old systems but nowadays I am using a OSSC with a 4K TV and my Megadrive/Mega CD combo. Sure, pixels are the size of peas, but I am really happy with the results. I am from Spain, in there I keep one of those massive Trinitron TVs I bought just for old systems in the early 2000s (the last units were super cheap because nobody wanted them). That is the perfect way to go, in my opinion, but sadly it is so massive and heavy (more than 100kg) that moving it is out of question. After testing many alternatives, I found the OSSC to be very convenient .

Do you have a comparison of what it looks like with and without OSSC? Im just going Scart into Plasma 1080i TV. Will get pics tomorrow

 

[IICIIEII]

I don't have any comparison pics, no, and sadly I got rid of the cheap SCART to HDMI converter/upscaler I used to have around, so I cannot take them (no SCART in my TV ). What I mostly noticed in terms of image quality is the sharpness and also that basically you don't have any lag with the OSSC. The lag was due to the previous crappy converter though.

 

[Guest2]

I don't have any comparison pics, no, and sadly I got rid of the cheap SCART to HDMI converter/upscaler I used to have around, so I cannot take them (no SCART in my TV ). What I mostly noticed in terms of image quality is the sharpness and also that basically you don't have any lag with the OSSC. The lag was due to the previous crappy converter though.

I understand about the need to go OSSC / Retrotink / Framemeister over cheap Scart to HDMI converters / upscalers if they introduce lag but for an older TV like mine that has scart and RCA (composite) input then surely the least lag would be observed using Scart or RCA?

Thinking Scart as the picture quality is slightly better than rca composite

I would have course me interested in the options but some range into the £500 region which is daft for what im doing (playing a few Megadrive games)

Maybe for a commerial retro place but then i would find retro CRTs or someone with many retro consoles.

 

[andshrew]

I understand about the need to go OSSC / Retrotink / Framemeister over cheap Scart to HDMI converters / upscalers if they introduce lag but for an older TV like mine that has scart and RCA (composite) input then surely the least lag would be observed using Scart or RCA?

Thinking Scart as the picture quality is slightly better than rca composite

I would have thought you may see more latency when you're connected directly to the TV via SCART or Composite as there is likely to be a whole load of image processing the TV will automatically do on these inputs to try and scale them up to the resolution of the TV; the kind of processing which can't be disabled in the same way which you can disable (or at least minimise) processing on a HDMI input. I may be wrong on that though.

 

[Guest2]

I would have thought you may see more latency when you're connected directly to the TV via SCART or Composite as there is likely to be a whole load of image processing the TV will automatically do on these inputs to try and scale them up to the resolution of the TV; the kind of processing which can't be disabled in the same way which you can disable (or at least minimise) processing on a HDMI input. I may be wrong on that though.

SCART is analogue, direct from console to TV so believe there will be minimal (if any) input lag. Only lag would be introduced if going SCART > HDMI > TV or adding in something else inbetween. That's my thinking anyway, someone else may correct me

 

[andshrew]

SCART is analogue, direct from console to TV so believe there will be minimal (if any) input lag. Only lag would be introduced if going SCART > HDMI > TV or adding in something else inbetween. That's my thinking anyway, someone else may correct me

That's not really what I meant. When you connect something to the SCART input on a modern TV it will be doing its own processing on that image before it actually outputs anything to the screen, and it is that additional step that wouldn't have occurred on a CRT that introduces the latency. There is a description of that here along with a summary of why you would want a dedicated upscaling device.

But if you're happy with how it plays on your TV then that's fine and I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[IICIIEII]

I understand about the need to go OSSC / Retrotink / Framemeister over cheap Scart to HDMI converters / upscalers if they introduce lag but for an older TV like mine that has scart and RCA (composite) input then surely the least lag would be observed using Scart or RCA?

Thinking Scart as the picture quality is slightly better than rca composite

I would have course me interested in the options but some range into the £500 region which is daft for what im doing (playing a few Megadrive games)

Maybe for a commerial retro place but then i would find retro CRTs or someone with many retro consoles.

As andshrew mentioned, it is quite normal to see lag with direct SCART input in LCD TVs, yes. This is mostly produced when the image is upscaled. You can improve this a bit by disabling any image enhancenments, though. Will it make a big difference? It depends, if you play Soleil, Shining Force or something slow paced possibly not much. If you play Robo Aleste, M.U.S.H.A or Thunderforce then probably yes . The less lag, the better, but I don't think it is a deal breaker for many games. I finished quite a few games using a cheap upscaler (Landstalker among them), but I noticed a lot of difference with fast shoot'em ups.

 

[Guest2]

As andshrew mentioned, it is quite normal to see lag with direct SCART input in LCD TVs, yes. This is mostly produced when the image is upscaled. You can improve this a bit by disabling any image enhancenments, though. Will it make a big difference? It depends, if you play Soleil, Shining Force or something slow paced possibly not much. If you play Robo Aleste, M.U.S.H.A or Thunderforce then probably yes . The less lag, the better, but I don't think it is a deal breaker for many games. I finished quite a few games using a cheap upscaler (Landstalker among them), but I noticed a lot of difference with fast shoot'em ups.

I played M.U.S.H.A yesterday actually, great game
The manual lag test on 240p test suite I can hit it easily so doest seem to me an issue

Does input lag matter as much / more on Plasma TVs? TV is an LG 50PZ550 - https://www.whathifi.com/lg/50pz550/overview

I thought plasma were known to have quite high input lag in general but to me there doesnt seem to be any