Best ways of cooling a full system?

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 14:18

Hi guys

I'm in need of some advice on the best methods of air cooling my system.

I have a Coolermaster Stacker which is pretty full with:

AMD X2 4400 & Freezer 64
Asus A8N32-SLI (the copper heatsink passively cooled one)
4x 512Mb Corsair TwinX RAM
XFX Geforce 7800GT

2x DVD-RW
2x IDE HDD
4x SATA HDD

Tagan 480W PSU

*All the fans came with the case*
I have two 4 in 3 modules with 120mm fans on the front.
An 80mm fan on the top
120mm fan at the back of the case by the ports...

And it's nowhere enough...the CPU is fine, it works quite happily at 40ishC which is fine on days like now (small room with no air conditioning).

But the motherboard keeps overheating and flashing warnings at me as it keeps hitting 45oC, currently I'm sat with a desktop fan between my legs pointing into the case to keep it running at a manageable 32oC. :rolleyes:

Water cooling isn't an option so I need the best advice you can offer on the best way of cooling things.

I have space left for:
2x 80mm fans at the bottom of the case (where the second PSU would go)
1x 80mm fan on the left hand side panel.

I don't want to get just any old thing so if anyone can advise me on brands to get, whether I should change the built in fans etc etc that would be great!

Thanks!

*edit* I should say that I would like it as quiet as possible as well (I know I want the world...though the 4000rpm fans that OCUK do sound fantastic they are also bound to be too loud).

Joe42 · 7 Jul 2006 at 14:58

I have that motherboard, what exactly is overheating?
What utility is telling you its overheating?

The copper heatpipe section over the voltage regulators on mine sits at about 55 with a duct to the rear fan, this is normal i believe. I think the chipset has been tweaked since the nf4 sli to cope with higher temps.

What cpu cooler are you using? Is it blowing air over the copper vreg/chipset heatsink?

If not, try making a duct to the rear fan with some plastic if you can.

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 15:10

Thanks for replying!

The Asus 'PC Probe 2' utility turns red when the 'MB' hits 45oC, it doesn't tell me which part, just that it is the motherboard.

Speedfan says the same thing.

The CPU cooler is an Arctic Freezer 64 and no, there isn't anything blowing specifically on the heatsinks on the motherboard.

The board came with a fan to put over the copper blade thingys (technical me...) but I haven't attached it as it was pretty specific that it wasn't a good idea unless you had a passive or watercooled processor.

I'm not sure what you mean about making a duct...do you have any pictures that I could use as reference?

gr1mey · 7 Jul 2006 at 15:30

could you try cutting a couple of 120mm fan into the side panel that blow onto the motherboard?

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 16:01

Errr...I'm not big on the self modding really and would prefer to use the existing spaces etc if possible.

If you have any advice about the best fans etc to use and where to put them that would be great!

Joe42 · 7 Jul 2006 at 16:30

I have just checked and mine is 33.

I did ask asus where this probe is, its supposed to measure case temperature, its right under but not touching either the copper or the aluminium voltage regulator, which is why it reads a bit hot.

I have 2 40mm fans blowing on my aluminium vreg heatsink and a duct on my copper one, and i have a feeling its under the aluminium one.

Can you give me some info about your cpu cooler?
If its blowing hot air over the vreg heatsink that would explain the higher temps.

If you wanted to fit fans on the side panel, if its the stacker 830 theres accomodation for 4, not that its likely to help.

okimanoob · 7 Jul 2006 at 16:54

You could try getting the Zalman Fan Bracket + 80/90/120mm fan to sit over the Asus Heatsink and Mofsets to cool them down. It fits at top of PCI Brackets.
That's what I will be doing when I get my W/C Blocks, rather than use the supplied Asus Fan for the heatsink, installed in next couple of weeks

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 18:12

That's interesting, I didn't know it was measuring case temperature rather than actual chip temperature.

I thought it would make more sense to upload a photo, you can view it here (there is also a larger file available).

The fan bracket is something to be considered but I will have to look into it, I had never heard of it before!

Please do have a look at the pic and see what you think.

Cheers

okimanoob · 7 Jul 2006 at 18:49

Zalman BR123 Fan Bracket (SY-002-ZA)
the Zalman BR123 provides cooling for PCI & AGP (with extra fan), Northbridge and even CPU by means of it''s multi-functional fan mounting design, specifically for use with the Zalman VGA, Motherboard and CPU coolers this provides maximum cooling performance with the minimum of noise and vibration. Note - Includes bracket and mounting assembly, requires existing 80mm or 120mm fan (available from our Fans & Grills section).

Price: £2.95 (£3.47 Including VAT at 17.5%)

Look in Other Coolers section

Joe42 · 7 Jul 2006 at 19:11

Be aware that if your case is anything like most coolermaster cases, the zalman fan bracket won't fit as the case probably uses a screwless slot retention mechanism.

okimanoob · 7 Jul 2006 at 19:20

Joe42 said:
Be aware that if your case is anything like most coolermaster cases, the zalman fan bracket won't fit as the case probably uses a screwless slot retention mechanism.

It dont m8 - bracket attaches on top of pci slots and can be held in place by the normal thumbscrews http://www.zalman.co.kr/
look under Fans & Brackets for FB123
Got one here with 92mm Fan waiting to be used

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 19:26

Thanks for your tips.

My case is a Coolermaster CM Stacker.

I do have screw holes at the back to keep the PCI cards screwed down but to be honest looking at the few photos I can find of the bracket I don't know if it would fit anywhere near the heatsinks with the CPU fan being so big.

I wonder if it would be best if I:

Put two 80mm fans at the bottoms of the case in the spare PSU slot.
Put a high power 80mm fan on the inside of the left panel sucking air into the machine.
Perhaps change the rear 120mm fan near the motherboard & cpu heatsinks for a high powered 120mm fan and suck out as much hot air as possible.

I also have an exhaust which could be placed between the graphics card and the CPU fan, though I don't know what effect this would have on the effectiveness of the cpu fan.

Joe42 · 7 Jul 2006 at 21:47

okimanoob said:
It dont m8 - bracket attaches on top of pci slots and can be held in place by the normal thumbscrews http://www.zalman.co.kr/
look under Fans & Brackets for FB123
Got one here with 92mm Fan waiting to be used

It is incompatable with many cases which use screwless pci slots, so there are no holes to screw it into. I know, i have two cases like this.

I don't think it will work very well in this scenario, it will just disrupt airflow.

What i did was put 2 40mm fans above the silver vreg heatsink blowing down. I simply attached them to the case with double sided tape, resting on the top edge of the motherboard.
For the copper vreg/chipset heatsink, get a piece of plastic and attach it between the rear fan and the end edge of the heatsink so the rear fan is forced to suck some if its air through that heatsink. You will need to bend the sides down so it won't suck air in from the sides.

Edit: You can take a look at this picture, this is before i made a duct for the rear vreg/chipset heatsink, but i do have the 40mm fans on the other vreg heatsink, although they aren't really necessary. My rear fan is 38mm thick which makes it easier to duct as its closer to the heatsink. I might be able to get a photo of the duct sometime if you like.

Now where would you attach a zalman bracket in there?

w3bbo · 7 Jul 2006 at 22:10

Jeez...Thats gotta be the most untidy case I have ever seen!

To get better cooling on the chipset you will need a fan blowing onto the uppermost (copper) block. Helped my temps no end!...That and cable tidying :eek:

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 22:20

Wow! That case looks busy!

Thanks for sharing that it's certainly interesting. I like what you've done with the 40mm fans but I would (and I know it sounds daft) be a bit worried about putting fans in that I can't secure into place in the proper areas.

I think what I'm wanting is an ideal solution with off the shelf components that can be plugged into standard spaces without any diy modifications.

I don't think that's going to happen though

The problem area is certainly going to be the corner of the board where you've put the 40mm fans as there is very little air circulation.

I think the first thing I will try tonight is putting an exhaust inbetween the graphics card and the cpu fan and see if that drags out any of the hot air left behind, see if that makes and difference or not.
If it does do some good then I can look into using that 40mm fans idea.

w3bbo said:
To get better cooling on the chipset you will need a fan blowing onto the uppermost (copper) block.

Well I have a fan to attach onto the copper block that came witih the motherboard but had a warning with it not to use it with air cooling...have you used it with air cooling? Did it cause any problems? Do you think it will interfere with the fan to the right of the copper block?

*edit* Just for a quick reference here is my board again (hope that image is OK, first time I've posted an image on here)

okimanoob · 7 Jul 2006 at 22:33

http://tagworld.com/OKIMANOOB/PictureDetail.aspx?id=83537e57-b24a-4b63-b072-2c275345c329
An I thought my cabling was bad

I am in process of having W/C set up done in next 2-3 weeks and plan to use the Zalman bracket + fan which will be screwed in using the PCI thumbscrews
so that the fan will sit above the A8N32 copper-heatsink,

No more large Scythe Ninja getting in the way so will be plenty space for air to circulate to cool the mofsets/copper heatsink.

In your case nowhere for extra fan to go between Ninja + rear Case fan. Does the Ninja fan not keep em cool as you have it blowing towards rear /

In OP case does CM Stacker not have any screw points that can be used for him to extend bracket/fan to reach over to the required area.
Is that the only way the AC64 fits - will it not fit facing rear or does fan not clear the RAM slots ?
Heres a review of how it works http://tech.vault9.net/forums/Zalman_FB123_adjustable_fan_bracket_review-t22407.html
you can adjust what area you want fan to sit over or even have more than 1 fan running off the bracket.

w3bbo · 7 Jul 2006 at 23:07

TheBigCheese said:
Wow! That case looks busy!

Thanks for sharing that it's certainly interesting. I like what you've done with the 40mm fans but I would (and I know it sounds daft) be a bit worried about putting fans in that I can't secure into place in the proper areas.

I think what I'm wanting is an ideal solution with off the shelf components that can be plugged into standard spaces without any diy modifications.

I don't think that's going to happen though

The problem area is certainly going to be the corner of the board where you've put the 40mm fans as there is very little air circulation.

I think the first thing I will try tonight is putting an exhaust inbetween the graphics card and the cpu fan and see if that drags out any of the hot air left behind, see if that makes and difference or not.
If it does do some good then I can look into using that 40mm fans idea.

Well I have a fan to attach onto the copper block that came witih the motherboard but had a warning with it not to use it with air cooling...have you used it with air cooling? Did it cause any problems? Do you think it will interfere with the fan to the right of the copper block?

*edit* Just for a quick reference here is my board again (hope that image is OK, first time I've posted an image on here)

Ignore the warning m8. If your case has little airflow (as in a watercooled case) then that small fan will help but only a little. Its easy to fit (just clips on) so its worth a try. Helped a little on mine. Have you tried reversing the rear case fan for it to act as an inlet rather than exhaust? This helps the A8n32 massively.

As good as the freezer 64 pro cooler is, the fan configuration dosn't help to cool a mobo as much as a HSF like the big typhoon. With a 120mm fan blowing down through the HS, this will help keep the surrounding mosfets cool aswell as the chipset.

Hope this helps.

TheBigCheese · 7 Jul 2006 at 23:41

Thanks for the replies and the review link, that helps me understand it more.

I've been doing some sizing up with an 80mm fan I have and in no way will the bracket or the fan sit in the case with the Freezer 64, there just isn't enough room.

I can try reversing the rear 120mm fan tomorrow so it sucks air in but won't that cause a build up of hot air in the case?

w3bbo · 8 Jul 2006 at 13:09

Not if you have that top 80mm fan as an exhaust.

Joe42 · 8 Jul 2006 at 13:24

okimanoob said:
No more large Scythe Ninja getting in the way so will be plenty space for air to circulate to cool the mofsets/copper heatsink.

In your case nowhere for extra fan to go between Ninja + rear Case fan. Does the Ninja fan not keep em cool as you have it blowing towards rear

No because both fans are above the top of the copper heatsink. Having a duct attached to the rear fan forces some air through the copper heatsink.

Regarding the wiring mess, that was after some time spent tidying it, and its a devil to get tidy, mainly because its so packed with stuff.

I'll be having another go when i get some new parts and i'll take some more pics of the duct and hopefully neater wiring.

You'd have to ask asus about this, i think i did once and i can't remember what they said, but i think high temps for the motherboard/chipset are ok.

And there is no thermal probe in the chipset, or if there is it isn't connected up, so its difficult to know how hot the chipset is getting. I only did those modifications in case it was getting too hot, and because i enjoy doing that sort of thing.