Bikers....

[iaind]

I know there's a few bikers about here and obviously a lot of motorists..

I don't want to start a massive flame war, but why do so many bikers drive like idiots? They seem to think the public roads are their own private racetrack and that they have more of a right to use the roads than us car drivers. I've seen bikers on the way home doing what must be well over 110~120, swerving in and out of traffic.

The amount of bikes I've had sit right on my tail on the dual carriageway when I'm overtaking traffic on the inside, then try to undertake me. I always pull into the inside lane after I've passed traffic and indicate when I do if there's something behind me.

Or they seem to expect me to pull over into the verge/kerb to let them past in traffic - why can they not just wait in a queue like the rest of us?

I know a lot of bikers will slate car drivers for not paying enough attention to bikes but I always see them and pay attention to what they're doing - do they not realise they're very difficult to keen an eye on when they're swerving around well over the speed limit?

I dont want anyone to think I'm saying all bikers are the same, but there seem to be such a high proportion of them that are willing to risk their own life and the life of others. I've never ridden a bike, so could someone try to explain - is it worth it? Why do so many ride like this?

 

[iaind]

Dont get me wrong, I've seen plenty of good responsible bikers and more than enough idiot car drivers.

It's just the ratio of good to bad seems to be a lot higher and the risks they're willing to take seem to be so much greater.

 

[iaind]

Wait in a queue??? Why the hell should I?

I ride sensibly (commute through central Bristol daily) , its the stupid bloody jealous car drivers with that attitude that try and block me when filtering that make it dangerous.

I wouldnt ever try and block a biker, but some of them expect cars to move over on unreasonably narrow roads. There are some roads around here where I see some bikers sitting patiently waiting and some trying to squeeze through..

Do not forget bikes accelerate and brake a lot faster than cars, so what may seem as reckless to you may well be within the riders/bikes capabilities.

If a bike is tailing you why not move to the left a bit? just enough to let them past. I always give car drivers a wave that do this.

When I was talking about tailgating, I was thinking in dual carriageway/motorway situations. I dont sit in the outside lane when I'm not overtaking (I know a lot of car drivers do though!) and I'll move in once I'm passed. Moving over in the lane on a dual carriageway would be pretty dangerous IMO

 

[iaind]

Some good points have already been made.

You're no doubt failing to rationalise the number of poor bike riders on the roads. You make out that there's a lot... well, maybe times that number by 20 or more and you've got the number of poor car drivers. Should you go and whine about every car driver? No.

The point is what you may see as reckless riding is perfectly safe and legal filtering. You cannot comment on things you've never done.

I just meant that in my experience I've seen a large proportion of poor bikers. But there are fewer of them on the roads, so I may just be unlucky.

I never said anything about filtering, I'm talking about the sort of riders who are undertaking other traffic at 130. You're right, I cant comment much on things I havent done, that's why I asked the question in the first place - to try and understand.

I think you may have misinterpreted the sort of thing I've been meaning, anyone who would condone the sort of behaviour I have in mind is an idiot.

Also, I did say I have seen plenty of decent bikers, and wouldnt imply they're all the same

 

[iaind]

If it is perfectly legal and safe to do so, why shouldn't they try to squeeze through? To keep you happy?

Again, I think you're misunderstanding the type of situation I'm talking about.

I couldnt care less if they pass me on a road that's wide enough, I'll move over if its safe for me to do so. But when they're practically taking wing mirrors off and forcing the oncoming traffic into the verge - I dont understand why they cant wait like the other traffic

 

[iaind]

In terms of quantity I've definitely seen more idiotic car drivers, but because there are fewer bikes it seems to me like the ratio is higher.

The type of risks they take are obviously different ot car drivers so I just want to try to understand the mentality behind it. If someone in a car screams past me on the motorway at ton I might think they're an idiot. When a biker hares past at 130, it seems so much worse to me - you cant fall off a car for a start!

A good example of the "barging past" was a few days ago. A city road with moderate traffic, a cycle lane on my left. I come to the crest of a hill and there's somoene on one of those big cruiser type bikes on my side of the road. There was a cyclist in the cycle lane to my left, so I could either let him carry on and knock the cyclist off his bike, or make him get back into his own lane. Yet, he was the one to make rude gestures at me - why was his journey so much more important than mine or the bones of the cyclist?

 

[iaind]

Then that isn't a complaint about bikers, that's a complaint about people who fail to observe basic road safety.

I see your point but I feel it is totally unfair single out bikers.

I'm not singling out bikers and saying they're the only bad motorists out there - I just want to try and userstand it. As a driver, I can understand (if not condone or accept) why some drivers do what they do - but I have no frame of reference for bikers

 

[iaind]

It also depends what you consider "trying to push through" or however you phrased it up there. Sitting off (and back a bit, obviously) the offside corner of the car in a position to slip through is pretty normal and all fine. Do they try and fit through and then bosh off either side of the cars, like in the fast and the furious film number 27?

Also, perception of speed, 130, 100, 90... mok moka mok.

EDIT: Oh I mean sitting on the bike, not on the actual car, how silly that would be!

As I mentioned before, I'm happy to let them past if its safe for me. I'm thinking about 2 sorts of situations - one is on motorways/dual carriageways when Ive had bikers within feet of my bumper and gesturing for me to move out the way, depsite the fact I'm overtaking slower traffic. When a car tailgates its bad, but surely if one of the slow moving cars on the inside pulled out infront of me and I had to brake suddenly, the outcome could be catastrophic for a biker..

The other is in queues of slow moving traffic. Again, I'm happy to move over if its safe - but read my example above.

 

[iaind]

ive had car drivers looking in there mirrors and then moving over to stop me getting past in slow moving traffic and even pushing me over when im moving past.
the worse i have had done to me was a guy just pulling out of a hotel, he didnt use the slip road out he just pulled straight out into the road almost taking me out
i was on my way to work at the time and had my steel toecaps on so he got a kick to the
front wing as i went past

Of course there are lots of bad drivers, and bikers are much more vunerable. I would never dream of intentionally blocking bikers (or other cars for that matter), I think motorists like that can be universally despised

 

[iaind]

As a Biker myself i do find i feel more confident on it than i do in a car. Like i can get away with things more than i could when i drive my car like put your feet over the number plate whenever you see a speed camera and after 10:00PM at night it does turn into a race course because there is nothing on the roads so you can go as fast as you wish 100mph+

Obviously if there's no traffic about the risk is your own. I personally wouldnt condone it because there always could be more traffic appearing, but each to their own.

The reason biking has never appealed is the feeling of vunerability, don't you feel like you're more at risk because youre on a bike? If i drive my car too quickly and crash, I would stand much more chance of surviving with seatbelts and airbags than a biker.

 

[iaind]

There are some idiot bikers, and because bikes are so quick compared to cars they do tend to make a nuisance of themselves, but they are the minority as far as I can tell (I ride a bike and drive a car regularly)

On a dual carriageway/motorway, I won't ever immediately undertake someone, however if they've passed several large enough gaps for me to see that they cba to move out of my way, then whether I'm in the car or on the bike I will undertake, if in your instance the biker undertook you almost immediately after coming up to you then that's pure recklessness on the bikers part.

Same with the filtering, if it's safe to do so (by safe I mean I can get through without knocking anyone's mirrors, or worse) then I'll do it, I won't do it if it requires either car to move out of the way though, again that's just silly.

To repeat, there are bad bikers, but as an added point I'm much more concerned about the bad car drivers, yes there are more of them, and imo there are probably a higher percentage of them (at least until the summer month's when the true fair-weather riders come out to try to kill themselves). If I'm in the car a bad driver, or bad rider, will simply cause an accident, 99% of the time that will be simply an annoyance. However if I'm on the bike that same bad driver can pull into the side of me on a roundabout, breaking my leg and giving me a nice 2 week spell in hospital, 3 months off work, 6 months till I can walk without a limp and for good measure I'll never be able to run any distance and my knee's will ache/be painful for the rest of my life.

Bad bikers are fine imo

Its interesting to hear the point of view from someone who rides and drives and its good to hear you agree with me about the instances I have mentioned. Yes, I have had bikers on several occasions go for an undertake immediately I have passed a row of 3 or 4 cars, on one occasion even when I was indicating left!

The general concensus seems to be that the speed/power thing makes bikers feel like they can take more risks, or would I be misunderstanding? Does it not feel more dangerous though? Or is it partly adrenaline because of that danger?

 

[iaind]

To many people overtake at 72mph then dont move back to the middle/left lane ...We bikers can get anoyed when it takes you xxx minutes to pass 1 car you never really needed to pass so we sometimes undertake you .

There are some retards on bikes ...but a lot more in cars .

Persil

Completely agree, that would annoy me too. But when I'm doing 80 and passing cars doing 60, there's really no need for it.

 

[iaind]

You are right there you are very vulnerable my m8 who was on a CBR 600 hit a car at 30mph came off and landed on he nee and lost his nee cap. He can no longer walk he thinks every day was it worth it and wished he had got a car. But a diffrent m8 of mine who 1st got me into bikes in 2002 had a accident at 90mph in a 40mph zone came off and is only left with a scar on his leg you just don't now what can happen if it all goes wrong

Its the same with cars - a few years back I was a passenger in a crash, my friend who was driving was going too quickly and spun it. I cracked some ribs, got whiplash and some other nasty bruises and things. He scratched his thumb!

What I'm really trying to understand is, do you feel vunerable on a bike though? I cant help but think I'd be constantly nervous about crashing if I was on a bike

 

[iaind]

Riding definitely isn't for you then . I don't feel any different riding to driving, I'm far more observant of my surroundings on a bike than in a car though.

Fog

Probably not! Its never really appealed, other than the "bang for buck" aspect. I'm just keen to understand it really.
Does being more observant not come partly from being out in the open, rather than in a tin box?

 

[iaind]

Makes sense I suppose! On a few occasions I have had bikers sitting in my blind spot though - I dont know if that is because they dont drive a car as well so dont understand (I think whenever its happened its been smaller bikes with L plates), or just the rider not paying attention.
I'd love a go on a bike at some point to experience it, but maybe not on the public road

 

[iaind]

Had one last night hovering about 3 inches away from my tail light ,I was trying to overtake this coffin dodger in front of me but had to keep an eye on this biker at the same time ,I just moved right over in the end as he was really annoying me. If your going to overtake just do it

I know when I had a bike I use to ride fast as it was such an uncomfortable riding position ,wrist aches,backaches,and numb bum and your either to hot or to cold. Fun for about a year I found .

Think thats the other reason I'm not too inclined to start riding a bike, wouldnt want to give up my comfy seat, heater/air conditioner and music

 

[iaind]

Thats because sports bikes are crap for road use , I had a GSXR 750 SRAD for a while, as soon as you dropped to legal speeds it just didn't make sense. Best sports bike I had for road use was a CBR600FN, was sort of half tourer half sports (when they were new, it'd be considered a classic probably now )

Fog

I hate to come over all Clarkson, but why can't they give them names, like cars. I'm sure my microwave is a CBR600FN

 

[iaind]

I did kind of feel you were/are saying this, I’ve not read past your OP yet, so I may be correct. But you do seem to have an attitude problem when driving, some of the things you have raised and the way you type about them, make me feel that you are one of the many divers I have come across who simply have a ‘bee in their bonnet’ about bikes.

I urge you to try a bike, in fact, I wish all new drivers were made to take a CBT, just so it gives them an idea what it is like to ride a bike – could help in the long-run to prevent accidents to.

Scort.

As you said when you posted, you hadnt read past the first post. I do think I came across badly, but I hope I cleared things up a bit in later posts.

I'm definitely not one of those "I'm queueing so you should have to too", but I like my wing mirrors attached to the car and my alloys not being scraped by being forced over.

The whole point of my posting was to try and understand bikers, which I think I do now, a bit

 

[iaind]

The whole point of the OPs post I think stems from frustration at being stuck in traffic.

edit edit: sorry if i come across a *&^% in above post, i'm not a great rider by a long shot and bikers are not above the law.. but filtering is legal why not take advantage of it ?. It's like asking a plane to stay out of the air because it's 'not fair'

Not at all - as I said above, I hope my later posts made me come across as less of an a**hole.

Of course I get frustrated when I'm stuck in traffic, but I'm not one of those idiots who takes it out on other people or tries to barge in front. I'll just sit back, turn up my music and try to relax

I suppose I have had several bad experiences with bikers, as none of my friends are bikers it has probably severely tainted my view, which is why I wanted to try to understand a bit more.

My last biker story, to try and let you guys know where I'm coming from. I was coming off a roundabout onto a 50mph dual carriageway, accellerated up to 55ish and approached cars doing 35~40 on the inside lane. I checked my wing and rear view mirrors, indicated, checked my mirrors and blind spot and moved out. A biker shot right up behind me and started waving for me to move over. Not wanting to speed up, I carried on overtaking the traffic and went to move in. He actually managed to undertake me at this point, while I was moving in. At red traffic lights up ahead he started beeping and waiving for the police car that was stopped at an accident on the other side of the road.
He told the policeman that I was trying to "ram him off the road", so he told us both to pull over around the corner ahead.
I stopped and he pulled alongside me and started yelling at me. IIRC his points were
-I was going to fast, and shouldnt be. Well, if I was going too fast, what was he doing. He seemed to think he was exempt from the limit.
-If I did hit him, it would be worse for him than for me. Quite true, although he didnt seem to grasp the fact that it would be quite shocking for me and would almost certainly have been his fault.
When I called him an idiot he just said "well if you want to go mate!!? **revs engine**"....oooo kay then.
When the police joined us, I tried to calmly explain what had happened but the biker was set on trying to press attempted murder charges. The copper eventually told the biker to stop being such an idiot, that he had seen what had happened and that the biker needs to calm down.
He asked for our driving licenses and insurance, which I gave to him and went on my way as it began to transpire that the biker had a provisional license and no insurance.

As I said, I think the fact that experiences like this have been my only real contact with bikers has warped my view, which I was hoping to change with this thread

 

[iaind]

but have you actually lost wing mirrors or had alloys scraped ?, i doubt it.

only once have a removed a wing mirror from a car, but that was with my fist after being physically assaulted on a garage forecourt.

a biker will always try not to hit anything, it would damage his bike or throw him off... at least on a real bike. some spotty kid on a shed scooter may not care much, but just get his reg plate and report him.

I've had wing mirrors clipped and nearly scraped alloys (they're 18" so easy to kerb them) when trying to move over. At the moment if I see that width of my lane - width of my car < width of bike, I'll stay where I am.

I think that's quite reasonable and I'd treat all traffic the same. The one exception to that is the emergency services, if I have to mount the kerb to let them past, I will.