biometric clocking in/out systems?

[Thekwango]

hoping some of you clever chaps can help me out here, (also hoping this is the best place to post!!)

I've been tasked with sourcing a biometric (preferably thumb print only - not so convinced on the facial recognition ones) clocking in/out machine. needs to be able to cope with upwards of 50 staff

anyone any experience of such systems that can make any suggestions, and comment on reliability and ease of use of software?

ideally I'd also like the software to come with a mobile app that allows remotely checking any staff members 'status' in real time

I've so far come across this,
https://www.safescan.com/en-gb/store/clocking-in-machines/safescan-ta-8030-clocking-in-machine

having no experience of these types of systems I thought I'd chuck it out to the superstars of OcUK

 

[Thekwango]

You can pick up fingerprint readers from the bay for about £50 plug it into a SQL database. The app would be easy enough to write.

Assuming you want to save costs.

What sort of work environment is it? I remember they experimented with a fingerprint clock in/out system in the nightclub I worked at but it failed to read people's prints correctly if they were swollen from working in wet. If it's a dirty environment it may not be suitable. Could go for rfid instead.

cheers for there reply. much rather have the complete package rather than having to flaff about setting up databases and getting apps written.

re the cost - as we have no experience of this sort of system we don't really know where to base our budget, I'd suggested 4 - 500 quid simply going off what I was seeing on google!

the environment itself is clean so there'd be no issues with dirty or wet hands - it's a production environment with an admin staff too

 

[Thekwango]

Why biometric rather than RFID?

Presumably worried about people logging in for each other?

yup, buddy logging or whatever they call it, and a camera means someone has to monitor it.

you also have the hassle of folks losing their cards/fobs. previous employer we had to have one of these installed after the 9/11 attacks (was a ferry port) and we were never done replacing staff cards - even when they were being charged for replacements

can always stick a camera at the entrance if that was an issue - the 24 hour gym chains have to guard against that sort of thing and seem to be OK using RFID

that's cause they have someone sat at a reception desk with not much else to do but watch a security camera. ideally we'd rather not tie up some ones time having to monitor a camera, if we had a free body for that they could physically just sign people in and out, but I appreciate the idea

 

[Thekwango]

Rfid is more common and can do all the logging and reporting. I've used net2 (paxton) in the past.

surely the biometric systems do the logging and reporting too?

what I've noticed is that most of the biometric scanners also come with rfid too so I'm guessing it's just both technologies at the UI side but the software logs and reports using either?

 

[Thekwango]

That's the one I recently purchased (well I got just the rfid version)

It works, the software is a little clunky - maybe because I networked installed it rather than on a standalone PC, which required a firebird sql install to make it work iirc (which I managed to do - with not knowing anything about firebird or sql, so it couldn't have been difficult )

At the end of the day, you are looking at budget systems, as I was, so it's not going to be all singing and dancing but it is functional.

Can't say it's saved me any time processing the payroll though....probably with all the missed & incorrect clocking it probably takes me longer than when we just used time sheets (we do have a very variable workforce though, with only half on standard hours)

we're not so much trying to streamline the payroll. unfortunately it's more a case of trying to keep a better track of staff and what hours they are logging - initially a small family company has now grown substantially and no longer family owned. a lot of trust is placed on staff in regards working hours etc and sadly it seems that some are not 'playing fair'

 

[Thekwango]

Could you use a unique pin per person?

you can and again from what I've found most of the systems offer that too, but like the rfid cards/fobs it is open to abuse - buddy logging (must be an American term!)

it's as easy to give your mate your pin as it is to give them your card

 

[Thekwango]

We use them on site with turnstiles. Very accurate and reliable. We use a company called http://www.permanexgroup.co.uk.

If it's just the software you need I can look tomorrow for you on the bit of kit

Need the hardware too. I'll have a look at their website and maybe give them a call.

 

[Thekwango]

no they don't - the whole point was they are 24 hour gyms... i.e the gyms which are still open when they don't have staff present - they use a camera system on the doors in conjunction with RFID

They may not need to monitored in real time but the fact of having a camera means that someone has to monitor it. That said, their usage requirements and mine are completely different. With Rfid it is easily open to misuse/buddy clocking. I'd rather not have to sit and scroll through video feed to make sure that isn't happening. As I said if I or someone else had the time to do that we could just have staff sign in/out at reception

 

[Thekwango]

My work uses biometric. No idea what brand it is though.

Any idea on reliability? Maybe take a squizz on the way by tomorrow and see what make?

 

[Thekwango]

That's the one I recently purchased (well I got just the rfid version)

It works, the software is a little clunky - maybe because I networked installed it rather than on a standalone PC, which required a firebird sql install to make it work iirc (which I managed to do - with not knowing anything about firebird or sql, so it couldn't have been difficult )

At the end of the day, you are looking at budget systems, as I was, so it's not going to be all singing and dancing but it is functional.

Can't say it's saved me any time processing the payroll though....probably with all the missed & incorrect clocking it probably takes me longer than when we just used time sheets (we do have a very variable workforce though, with only half on standard hours)

mind if I ask if you've had any reason to use their support services - just curious how good they are if you have any problems?

 

[Thekwango]

It was a bit of both why we changed to the clocking in machine, as when filling in time sheets it was amazing that employees always remembered when they did extra hours, but forgot those days off sick



I think they charge extra for support? At least for installation they do iirc. We didn't pay for any but have rung them a couple of times with questions.

Umm, it was minimal at best and the instruction manual is a bit pidgeon english, but it's not that complicated a system / software and is easily figured out.

Like I say, it's functional but doesn't have the bells and whistles. We asked ADT for a quote for their system, and I'm sure it came back at over £6k!

cheers for that.

and yes ADT also quoted us at silly money too!

 

[Thekwango]

My last employer had a facial recognition system, it worked flawlessly.

In fact, I've turned up the past 2 years to do some consulting work and it still recognises my face. Took all of a fraction of a second to register the face which always blew my mind.

Stops people clocking other people in with RFID or swipe cards.

you don't happen to know which system they were using? I was of the opinion (probably wrongly) that the fingerprint systems were more reliable - purely based on the fact the technology has been around longer (probably wrong on that too! )

Have the staff been informed that they will be required to "sign in" and possibility of their finger print being recorded?

I don't think they will take to kindly to having that forced down upon them.

that's something the owners can worry themselves with - I'm steering clear of that can of worms. I've simply been tasked with the job of identifying a decent enough system to do what we want

My work tried it, but because people don't want to have to filter through the main office to get places, and would much rather go directly to their workplace they just don't do it. And no one checks.

they will have to abide by it here and it will be checked - our main problem is that people are just coming and going as they please (well 1 or 2 main culprits really) and the company would rather just in a round about way encourage them to stick a bit more closely to their working hours rather than going the whole disciplinary route

 

[Thekwango]

One of our customers recently moved from Biometric to RFID as it was taking multiple attempts for people to get access. Both systems are the Net2 Paxton systems.

What I've been looking at so far have been biometric systems which include RFID so if we do have problems with the biometric scanning at least we have a fall back.

 

[Thekwango]

thanks for all the info chaps - I've got a few call backs coming my way so hopefully get something sorted over the next few days

 

[Thekwango]

The only time it fails is if someone doesn't place their finger correctly. And whoops, forgot to check the brand, I'll do it tomorrow.

outstanding my good man.

cheers

 

[Thekwango]

What's the point in a non mission critical secure workplace, people will immediately know if you haven't shown up for work?

I'm assuming here it's being used for payroll purposes and not access control.

there is a high degree of trust placed on staff in our work place to keep to their working hours and record their over time legitimately. unfortunately 2 or 3 staff members appear to not be playing fair.

the hope is that the implementation of a clocking system will act as a 'polite' reminder to be a bit more honest regards breaks and time keeping in general - rather than having to go straight into the whole issuing warnings/disciplinary etc

 

[Thekwango]

For 2 or 3 staff surely it just makes sense to tell them you known they're being cheeky willys and to behave themselves before you start handing out warnings and things rather than dropping a large amount of time and money on this.

Sorry should have given a bit more depth to the story. There are 2-3 main culprits, but their activities have given rise to an almost general acceptance among the rest of the staff that they can pretty much come and go as they please. So if you pulled any 1 individual they could point out 'but so so has been late' etc. Could just end up in a whole mess to be honest.

regarding costs and time, I'd say we'll most likely go for a ~500 quid system - so no real big outlay financially and time wise we'll the 'research' let's me browse the ocuk forums without question so I'm happy with that!

 

[Thekwango]

I looked in the morning and by this time I have forgotten what ours is called. I remember the website sticker though - https://www.timesystemsuk.com/

Ours isn't on there now, it's an older model but the GeoTime 100 or 200 are identical except ours is fully black. There's a facial one on there too which is in the same price bracket.

ah good man, thanks for that. had been looking at those system actually.