blueray 360? :s

[Memphis]

Yea i agree it would be stupid of Sony to release it now, but i think they should have anticapted the fact that not everyone will use the Blu-Ray player and should have stuck to normal DVD like the 360. The 360 is coping with DVD, so i don't see why the PS3 couldn't have. Coming from a 360 owner so im a bit biased

I quite agree mate . It's just a certain section of this forum believe that the fact Blu-Ray can store more content and yet still only produce the same quality as HD-DVD or in the case of games, no noticable difference in quality over 360 games, is the sole reason as to why Blu-Ray is the superior format, and should be winning.

 

[Scratchy]

Well they could just have the games on DVD and have a Blu-Ray player for HiDef movies

Yeah but then their secret weapon in trying to win the Hi-Def market is having Blu-ray in a PS3 thats the reason why its there.

 

[Shamikebab]

I thought we'd see longer games with all the extra space they have on Blu-Rays, yet it seems every review of a PS3 game I've read seems to have too short as a negative

 

[Scratchy]

I thought we'd see longer games with all the extra space they have on Blu-Rays, yet it seems every review of a PS3 game I've read seems to have too short as a negative

Only game I can think of thats short is Heavenly Sword all the others come into line with the what seems to be the norm these days 8-12 hours.

 

[Nymins]

I thought we'd see longer games with all the extra space they have on Blu-Rays, yet it seems every review of a PS3 game I've read seems to have too short as a negative

Its mainly because the developers have trouble making the games with the PS3's hardware. It would cost a small fortune to make a long game for the PS3. Going by the news from awhile ago, not sure if the developers have finally got to grips with the PS3's hardware yet.

 

[james.miller]

PS3 made the mistake of having a Blu-Ray drive which shot the cost up, which is why its not selling as well. Blu-Ray hasn't "won" because of the PS3, its just more film companies are using it.

even though it's sold more in its first year than the 360 did?

 

[Demon]

How's this for a common sense 'thought'..

All MS/Sony have to do is have two drive types, DVD and HDM Drive (Hi-Def Media Drive, i.e. HD-DVD or BR), then release future games larger then DVD-9 as multi-DVD or single HDM disk..

This gives us a real choice, and it would only affect a few titles..

 

[Shamikebab]

even though it's sold more in its first year than the 360 did?

you have to bear in mind how popular the PS2 was in comparison to the Xbox 1 though, by Sony's standard and with their proportion of the previous generations market, it is a failure.

 

[james.miller]

you have to bear in mind how popular the PS2 was in comparison to the Xbox 1 though, by Sony's standard and with their proportion of the previous generations market, it is a failure.

rubbish that makes no difference. thats you calling it a failure however well it does. the simple truth is, although only just, that it outsold the 360 in its first year. if that means its a failure, well then so is the 360. but what are you going to blame the 360's failure on?

 

[Shamikebab]

So Sony losing a percentage of the market is not a failure? and Microsoft gaining a larger proportion of the market is?

 

[james.miller]

So Sony losing a percentage of the market is not a failure? and Microsoft gaining a larger proportion of the market is?

the market is bigger now than it was in the last generation. how can you consider anything to be a failure just because it doesnt have a proportional size of the market in its first year compared to the console it replaced? what competition did the ps2 have when that was released, the dead dreamcast and sonys own ps1?

the ps3 has sold '>as many< consoles in its first year as the 360 did. but it did that last year when the 360 had a good head start, established itself, was cheaper, had better games....thats not a failure at all, its a success. they may well have not reached their targets, but against the competition they did just as well.


what were your excuses for the 360's failure again?

 

[Shamikebab]

But the 360 hasn't failed as I explained, they've continued to cut away at Sony's share of the 'hardcore' gaming market. You must see how Sony coming from a position of strength with the PS2 is different to Microsoft from the Xbox?

 

[james.miller]

if you believe sony have failed, then you must think the same of the 360's first year. i never said the 360 did fail. i dont think either of them have. for the ps3 to have succeeded in your eyes, it would have had to of sold substantially more consoles in its first year than the ps2 did and critically, it would have had to sell a LOT more than the 360 did as well.

now, if thats the only way you could call the ps3's sales a success, how on earth can you call the 360 one?

 

[Shamikebab]

As I've already said because Microsoft have gone from being far behind Sony in terms of hardware sales to being in front (or about level if we're just talking first year sales) how could that not be construed as a success?

 

[james.miller]

sony achieved the same sales as ms did when the 360 was already an established console. the 360 marked the beginning of a brand new generation and again, it didnt have any competition when it was released.

MS with the 360, much like sony did with the ps2, scored the market at the right time. Sony may well be playing catch up with the ps3, but it hasnt sold any less than the 360 did.

 

[mmj_uk]

No I don't think so, and most games have the data duplicated to lessen the read times, so the size is just bloated.

But agree they could not release a non BR version anyway.

Jesus christ man, you are still clinging on to this myth?? this whole argument originated from a single PC based developer who struggled to port their game over to PS3.

We use most of it, about 18GB if I remember correctly (and everything on the disk is actualy compressed at a 2:1 ratio too as the CELL is so powerful, that it can decompress the data faster than it can read it.

18GB, with 2:1 compression ratio... Cell can decompress data on the fly? wow I didn't know that.

One of the things I really like about the PlayStation 3 is the combination of the Blu-ray and the hard drive. Without the Blu-ray the game wouldn't have fit on a disc, for example the audio for the different languages won't fit on a DVD. We're only using the hard drive as a cache, the game doesn't need to be installed, but the fact the hard drive is on every PlayStation 3 helped our streaming technology dramatically.

We are constantly streaming animations, level data, textures, music and sounds. It would have been impossible to get this amount of data at that speed to memory without the hard drive. And of course on top of that we use the SPU's to decompress all this data on the fly.

As I said earlier, we couldn't have done Uncharted without the Blu-ray, at least at the quality we wanted to make it. To get such high-resolution textures and movies, a Blu-ray was indispensable to achieve the graphic quality of Uncharted. We fill the disc at 91 percent and it's optimized, meaning we don't duplicate any data. That includes all our game data, sounds, 7 spoken languages and 102 minutes of movie.

Realtime decompression again? 91% capacitiy and they don't need to duplicate any data, amazing!

Compression; both image and geometry data. For the amount of content I expect to see over the course of this generation of games, real time decompression of just about everything that is pumped to the GPU will be a must-have. With the right techniques, at times working with compressed data will actually be faster than uncompressed data on the SPUs!

So do you now see that it's not quite as simple as who can get data off the disc fastest? ...and that's not even getting into the whole CLV versus CAV argument.

rubbish that makes no difference. thats you calling it a failure however well it does. the simple truth is, although only just, that it outsold the 360 in its first year. if that means its a failure, well then so is the 360. but what are you going to blame the 360's failure on?

...and 360 had no competition, PS3 has had Wii to content with and to a lesser extent 360.

 

[msmalls74]

Sorry to come of topic but how can you judge if a console has failed before its had a chance to develop?. The PS3 is outpacing the PS2 in its first year of sales (just) so who knows it may go on to sell more than the PS2 in its life time, the 360 has a larger market share as it was out longer so it had 100% of the next gen market, its now been over taken by the Wii. If after 5 years the PS3 only sold 40 million or say, you could say it hasnt sold aswell as the PS2, and has a smaller market share, but if it brings in profits to SCE then surely it hasnt failed? Sure Sony would like to sell as many PS3 as PS2's but if it brings in profits then i guessed they will be quite happy. Be intresting to see the sales growth of the consoles this year the 360 sold 17% less in 2007 than 2006, wonder if 2008 will buck this trend, and same for the PS3 see if it sells more this year than last, the Wii off course will sell more than the other 2 IMO, but will it sell at the same rate who knows going to be intresting to see what happens this time next year.

 

[Shamikebab]

sony achieved the same sales as ms did when the 360 was already an established console. the 360 marked the beginning of a brand new generation and again, it didnt have any competition when it was released.

MS with the 360, much like sony did with the ps2, scored the market at the right time. Sony may well be playing catch up with the ps3, but it hasnt sold any less than the 360 did.

OK I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this, we're both making good points but the last thing I want is for the fanboys wading in and completely derailing the topic into an argument.

Back to the blu-ray discussion. I actually think its possible we won't see blu-ray support on a Microsoft console until the 360's successor. If Blu-ray does 'beat' HD DVD and become the dominant HD optical disc standard I can't see it happening for a good year or two. What do people think about an integrated Blu-ray drive in the Xbox "3"?

 

[james.miller]

this is exactly my point, you cant call anything a failure based on its first year anyway (assuming its still going after the first year). but if we are talking sales, the ps3 relatively, is the best of the two. the wii..well.....that is a success in everybody's books.

Originally Posted by Motorstorm developer

We use most of it, about 18GB if I remember correctly (and everything on the disk is actually compressed at a 2:1 ratio too as the CELL is so powerful, that it can decompress the data faster than it can read it.
18GB, with 2:1 compression ratio... Cell can decompress data on the fly? wow I didn't know that.

careful there, think about what they are saying. think of the transfer rate, and the power required to decompress 18gb of data if it really is 2:1 in real time. have you ever taken notice of how quickly your pc processes a zip file? try it some time, i bet it's nowhere near as quick.

 

[MadMatty]

I dont think MS are anywhere near close to dominating sony. Sony have 3 consoles doing pretty well for them selves with ms relighing on one. Certainly nintendo and ms have bitten a big bite into sonys marketshare, but sony hasnt lost enough to say sony gaming is a failure.