BoE confirms what we knew already: migration driving down wages

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/116...ng-for-jobs-online-keeping-UK-wages-down.html

Foreign workers are keeping down wages because people are able to find jobs online before arriving in the UK, the Bank of England has suggested, as official figures showed that more EU migrants last year found work in the UK than Britons.
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It came as the Bank said that net inward migration from European countries is having an “impact on wage pressures”.

Foreigners’ ability to search for jobs before they come to the UK “could make wages less responsive to domestic labour market pressures”, the Bank said in a report.

Helpfully after the election - wouldn't want British people voting while having access to the facts would we?

There's no way we should vote to stay in the EU unless somehow Cameron manages to negotiate an opt-out for Britain on the free movement of people.

 

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I'm confused, are UK workers unable to use the internet?

I'm confused, I'm sure they are able to but why would that mean anything but an increased supply of workers and therefore lower wages?

Besides, I'm pretty sure the BoE is talking about localised online job site e.g. a Lithuanian web site advertising jobs based in the UK in Lithuanian.

Waits for UKIP to arrive waving flags and signing we told you so...

That's what I was going for in the OP

 

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How does a non UK resident finding a job online in the UK differ from a UK resident in one region finding a job online in another region?

Is the suggestion that a low skilled worker in Poland would find a job in Yorkshire online and then move, whereas a low skilled worker in Cornwall would move to Yorkshire first and then try and find a job, and complain that the Polish guy beat him?

As always with these things, it says more about the attitude of people in the UK than anything else.

yes it's all the poor's fault as usual. I know you think you're being clever, but you've not actually addressed the point that stable demand and a higher supply of workers lowers the price of labour. The fact that there are an extra 1 million workers in the UK as a result of the EU's free movement of people has increased the supply of workers quite a lot. What part of that do you disagree with?

 

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None of it. That all makes perfect sense and I totally agree.

What I don't get is the articles suggestion that its somehow unfair on UK workers that foreign workers can find jobs online.

I don't think the BoE are in the business of suggesting what's fair or unfair, just reporting on the state of the economy. You may have missed on of my edits:

"Besides, I'm pretty sure the BoE is talking about localised online job site e.g. a Lithuanian web site advertising jobs based in the UK in Lithuanian."

Would you agree that would make it unfair on British workers? If jobs aren't advertised in Britain or in English? Please don't suggest that fluent language skills in Polish, Lithuanian, Bulgarian and Romulanian are required to pick vegetables.

 

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I don't think anyone is surprised by this, the potential labour supply is much greater than the unemployment numbers, due to older workers re-entering and migrants.

Yeah but in the run up to the general election there were plenty of anti-kippers who were convinced that immigration had no effect on wages, and could even point to a highly dubious academic study to prove it. There was even one clown, I forget who, who claimed that more people = more jobs as if unemployment never existed.

 

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Here's how the BBC reported it.

Not quite so sensational?

That's a report on an interview this morning, whereas the report in the OP is about a report released by the BoE yesterday. Tbh, my analysis of Carney's interview on the Today programme is that the powers that be have phoned him up and torn a strip off him for letting the cat out of the bag yesterday. His comments also do not make sense. Of course increasing the supply of labour is going to hit productivity.

 

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the problem is not the immigration, the problem is the fact that taking benefits and doing no work = the same as working your bum off for 40-50hours/week and having the same amount of money at the end. There's no real motivation to work really.

So how does driving down the price of labour solve that problem then? Maybe if people could earn £15 an hour shelf-stacking in Tescos they'd be less likely to rot on benefits?

 

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That's never going to happen, also why make free movement of people the single EU issue, remember it means you can up sticks and move to another country to live/work if you want to, it's not just a one way street

This is my country though, why can't I speak out against an obvious injustice in my country? The reality is that the free movement of people is always going to screw over British working people more than anyone else in Europe because more citizens of EU states speak English as a foreign language than any other language.

 

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Why do you feel there is more of a connection with someone just because of the geographical location of their birth?

Because that's the way the world's organised, duh.

It's no wonder the Poles are getting all the jobs when even Bristish people can't use English correctly!

ROFL

 

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That doesn't lend it any credibility.

Why doesn't it lend it any credibility? I'd have thought anything that didn't acknowledge the reality of a situation would be completely without credibility myself.

 

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Define "working people"?

People who earn money by exchanging their time, labour, or skills in a framework commonly known as employment, specifically as opposed to those who earn money through the ownership of assets.

 

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That's most people, including me, and I don't feel "screwed over", and I don't know anyone who does on this issue.

Fair enough, but have you tried going down the road and asking a few people in Peterborough?

Just because the world is organised by arbitrarily drawn lines on a map doesn't mean feeling a connection to people based on said lines because they are within the same said lines as you are, makes any sense.

I'd love it to see you hop over the channel and try that one with the French - "hey amis, I'm one of you, we're all the same" lol. Like it or not the world is organised into nations with borders and will be for the considerable future.

 

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Minimum wage sets the price of labour.

It doesnt matter if you have 100 trillion unskilled workers, who ever you employ will earn only minimum wage because that is the law....

If you withdraw foreign labour sources all you have left is low paid 0 hour contract British workers that could quite probably be better off on the Benefit train at the end of the day.

Stupid Benefit system
Stupid minimum wage that doesn't even pay for basic life necessities in most of the country.
Britain is fundamentally BROKEN from the very base.

I earn more than the minimum wage, a lot more. How do you explain that?

 

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You think the French and Spanish are happy for retired British people moving into their country, using their health service (Private or public that is still another person to wait behind in line at the pharmacy, A&E etc.), not contributing to the economy and since they are generally older using far more than the average person in medical care. Could you imagine the British uproar if some of our seaside towns ended up being swamped with ignorant foreigners who only moved for the weather, use our NHS and never paid anything into it and couldn't care less about the rest of the country.

In fact I would say we get the benefits of the free movement of labour, at least our migrants are coming for jobs, working, paying taxes and contributing to society and places like the south of France and Spain end up with all our pensioners and hooligans turning their seaside resorts in to little Britain.

That is what I would call an injustice.

Those are issues for the people of France and Spain respectively, I don't feel entitled to an opinion because they aren't my countries. I'll point out that while I don't know about Spain, in France there is no NHS - British people who live there have to buy mandatory health insurance so there's no resource contention in healthcare.

 

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What's different about the people in Peterborough?

My understanding is that Peterborough has experienced one of the highest levels of immigration from eastern European countries. They may feel rather different about uncontrolled immigration and the effect it has had on their town than people from Cambridge.

 

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Herp a derp My Carney, check your migration figures again...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32739852

Isn't the Governor of the Bank of England supposed to be apolitical? Bit worrying that he seems to be back-tracking on what he said yesterday and now actively cheerleading for the pro-migration crowd?

 

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That was my thought. Ever notice that people love the low inflation and low (real terms) prices, and not wonder where they come from? Low wage costs are a vital part of capitalism, and any company which wishes to survive will find the cheapest labour it can commensurate with actually being able to do the job. If you keep wage costs down, you can sell cheaper.

First lesson of life: everything has a price.

None of that changes the argument though; we live in a society where the price of labour is set by a free-ish market - the important thing is that there are laws such as minimum wage, HASAWA that protect all workers but especially those at the lower end of the market. I'm sure that we could reduce the cost (not price) of building a house if child labourers were used like they in certain parts of the world, however that *****s (stimulates) my conscience and I'm sure it does for most forum members. So we have this constant question about what protections do the most vulnerable workers need? All I want is some controls about the numbers of immigrants coming into the country.

HS2 is always in the news and part of its story is the astronomical cost. I wonder if we could reduce the cost by doing what the US did in the 18th and 19th century - get Chinese labourers in to build the railways. Is everyone OK with that? I wouldn't say so personally.

 

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So in 1970 say, you could work 9-5 in a supermarket and support yourself living alone in your own flat etc etc quite easily? In 1970 were households of just one person commonplace?

Not sure but I'm certain that you didn't get 3 bed-semis converted into dormitories for 10+ workers.

You can, provided you are skilled.

Why not unskilled as well? I mean, if it's so good for us why isn't it good for other countries like Canada? Not aiming this question at you specifically

 

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Why stop there? Why not add some emotive hyperbole?



There we go

Well that was the example used by someone else that you originally responded too. Credit to you for giving a sensible answer to the second point though - I agree FWIW.

 

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That's not the immigrants, it's the farmers.

It's the system.