Bristol Riots

[RDM]

I'm not casting this on the whole of England and its population, but certain demographics do continually use violence where as this trend isn't replicated elsewhere.

Isn't it though? Most UK cities North, South, East and West of the various borders can be pretty grim on a Saturday night. Scotland has quite a serious problem with alcohol related violence as an example. Quite a few of our european neighbours have issues with certain demographics too, hell France seems to riot more often than us. Do you have anything concrete to back up your assertions or is it just a case of seeing the world through the lens of our own expectations?

Certainly out of the mainland UK political violence is more common in England, but that is probably more to do with the fact that the Politics of the UK are still primarily centered in England.

 

[Cuchulain]

I would be bitter that my nation isn't generally violent at any given excuse would I?

No, not any given excuse, just when you've a drink in you, which from what I understand is almost every waking moment

As for rioting in NI, it's long gone past being sectarian, it's more recreational rioting, i.e. any excuse for a riot. I'd say at least in England they can conjure up a reason for their behaviour.

 

[Castiel]

There is very few examples of crowd violence in modern Scotland.

Maybe because most of the protests that affect Scotland have been address toward Westminster and have been of UK importance rather than only Scottish importance.

For example the protest against the G8 summit in 2005 held in Edinburgh was a pretty violent affair.

here are some pictures:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/legacyga...ks-Edinburgh-protest.html?selectedImage=51437

The sectarian crowd violence between Rangers and Celtic, in fact the crowd violence in Manchester perpetrated by Glasgow Rangers fans not so long ago either. Old Firm crowd violence is still a big issue in Scotland, something that is rarely seen in England amongst English rivalries these days.

Also an example of something akin to last nights violence in Bristol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1477084.stm

There were protesting over the closure of a Swimming Pool, and it degenerated into violence.

These are just what I can google-fu in a few minutes, which undermines your argument somewhat.

As a group, yes.

As I have illustrated the Scots are just as likely to resort to violence as a group as any other nationality

It normally does dependent on the action.

It is highly dependant on the action, local issues are usually protested by local people, however what are the comparisons for Scottish to English residents in each respective country?

You would have to prove that a Scotsman has eschewed violence when an Englishman hasn't when all other conditions are equal.

Out of all the examples in recent history in England it has most of the time been English people.

And in Scotland it has been Scottish people. I would bet that there are more Scots participating in purely English demonstrations than there are English participating in purely Scottish ones.

I don't think it does at all.

I just want to know why we differ in our mentality.

We do not differ in our mentality, you are simply making it up...

 

[Biohazard]

Maybe because most of the protests that affect Scotland have been address toward Westminster and have been of UK importance rather than only Scottish importance.

You are repeating yourself.

I'm talking pre-devolution as well, there is a clear trend.

For example the protest against the G8 summit in 2005 held in Edinburgh was a pretty violent affair.

here are some pictures:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/legacyga...ks-Edinburgh-protest.html?selectedImage=51437

Can you show me a G8/G20 meeting that the anarchists haven't shown up to?

The sectarian crowd violence between Rangers and Celtic, in fact the crowd violence in Manchester perpetrated by Glasgow Rangers fans not so long ago either. Old Firm crowd violence is still a big issue in Scotland, something that is rarely seen in England amongst English rivalries these days.

If you want to bring in football violence to this Scotland pales in comparison to England.

Also an example of something akin to last nights violence in Bristol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1477084.stm

There were protesting over the closure of a Swimming Pool, and it degenerated into violence.

These are just what I can google-fu in a few minutes, which undermines your argument somewhat.

Nonsense it does.

I've never claimed you won't find isolated examples, but broadly speaking Scotland is not violent at protest like England.

As I have illustrated the Scots are just as likely to resort to violence as a group as any other nationality

Not in political protest they aren't.

It is highly dependant on the action, local issues are usually protested by local people, however what are the comparisons for Scottish to English residents in each respective country?

I've yet to hear of a supermarket getting attacked for opening up here, it's quite a different kettle of fish to economic closure of public facilities.

You would have to prove that a Scotsman has eschewed violence when an Englishman hasn't when all other conditions are equal.

I agree to a point, but then again history speaks for itself.

And in Scotland is has been Scottish people. I would bet that there are more Scots participating in purely English demonstrations than there are English participating in purely Scottish ones.

Conjecture.

We do not differ in our mentality, you are simply making it up...

No we do.

There have been instances of communities fighting corporate moves in areas dependent on small retailers, when those battles have been lost they didn't get pished turned up and tanked the place.

There is a real difference in mentality if you want to admit to it or not.

 

[Biohazard]

Isn't it though? Most UK cities North, South, East and West of the various borders can be pretty grim on a Saturday night. Scotland has quite a serious problem with alcohol related violence as an example.

Irrelevent and I've already covered this.

Quite a few of our european neighbours have issues with certain demographics too, hell France seems to riot more often than us. Do you have anything concrete to back up your assertions or is it just a case of seeing the world through the lens of our own expectations?

I've already posted some statistics up too.

Certainly out of the mainland UK political violence is more common in England, but that is probably more to do with the fact that the Politics of the UK are still primarily centered in England.

I agree, but I disagree with the proximity to the politik as it makes no difference on your course of action in protest.

It sounds like excuse making to me.

 

[Biohazard]

No, not any given excuse, just when you've a drink in you, which from what I understand is almost every waking moment

As for rioting in NI, it's long gone past being sectarian, it's more recreational rioting, i.e. any excuse for a riot. I'd say at least in England they can conjure up a reason for their behaviour.

Recreational rioting, well yes with the kids who have nothing to do no doubt. I can see how you've come to that conclusion.

What is the reason for smashing up tesco's then?

 

[bhavv]

Why do people keep on using the politics excuse when most riots that happen hardly have anything to do with politics?

 

[Cuchulain]

Recreational rioting, well yes with the kids who have nothing to do no doubt. I can see how you've come to that conclusion.

What is the reason for smashing up tesco's then?

Their reason for smashing up Tesco's is that they didn't want a supermarket taking trade away from other small retailers, it's no excuse but it's the apparent reason.

 

[Hades]

Were you there? Were you the photographer? If you were then please could you post the picture below without the face being photoshopped to obscure the vandal. It could be potential evidence for the police. Thankyou, much appreciated.

Oh, actually, since you posted this on a public forum then hopefully one of the many people here who happen to be in the police may pass this information on to the investigating force. I'm sure they can contact you through your ISP and get the photo if needed.

People like this person in the photo are scum.

 

[MattU]

What difference would building a Tescos make to local businesses if the locals don't want it?

Unless it was only the local anti-capitalist anarchists, who squat in other peoples property and scrounge from society whilst contributing nothing to it, didn't want it?

But that's ok, since squatting is part of the culture.... ????

 

[Castiel]

You are repeating yourself.

I'm talking pre-devolution as well, there is a clear trend.

Would that not actually increase the protests toward Westminster rather than lessen them however.

And why protest Westminster, from 600 miles away.

Can you show me a G8/G20 meeting that the anarchists haven't shown up to?

Can you show me any protest where the anarchists haven't shown up to?

If you want to bring in football violence to this Scotland pales in comparison to England.

Not in recent times, which is what you wanted to limit this to earlier.

Nonsense it does.

I've never claimed you won't find isolated examples, but broadly speaking Scotland is not violent at protest like England.

Do you have anything other than your opinion to actually back that up though, because it seems that illustrations and examples abound that counter your opinion.

Not in political protest they aren't.

Again, they are just as likely to participate in political protest toward the UK Government as anyone else.

I've yet to hear of a supermarket getting attacked for opening up here, it's quite a different kettle of fish to economic closure of public facilities.

Did the rioting not begin over the eviction of a squat and not the opening of Tesco?

Have not the protests against Tesco been completely peaceful until the eviction?

It is not any different, you are claiming that the Scottish are less violent as a group and the evidence simple doesn't support you.

Conjecture.

You're entire contention that Scots as a group are less violent than the English is conjecture....

No we do.

There have been instances of communities fighting corporate moves in areas dependent on small retailers, when those battles have been lost they didn't get pished turned up and tanked the place.

There is a real difference in mentality if you want to admit to it or not.

One example is hardly indicative of anything, especially as the violence was sparked by a squat eviction rather than the opening of a convenience store.

Tesco opens a store in England every week, if not more, and many are subject to protests, that one has, with other factors, turned violent is not indicative of anything.

You are simply trying to impose a fictional national superiority that doesn't exist.

 

[RDM]

It sounds like excuse making to me.

I am sorry but it is coming across like you are a bit of an anti-english bigot with this particular issue. You seem to be excusing any Scottish violence as irrelevant when talking about the English being violent.

 

[Biohazard]

Would that not actually increase the protests toward Westminster rather than lessen them however.

And why protest Westminster, from 600 miles away.

No, and this is a non point as well.

What does this have to do with violent tendancies towards property?

Absolutely nothing.

We also had arms of Westminster to protest at, and done so peacefully not smashing up London screaming Tory scum.

Can you show me any protest where the anarchists haven't shown up to?

No the G8/G20 attracts differing groups above localised protest.

Not in recent times, which is what you wanted to limit this to earlier.

Oh yes in recent times.

I initially set the term from 90 onwards to save my flicking through riot stats, but going back further to the industrial disputes even then in those heated times there were apparent differences in 'tact' shall we say.

You trying to say England hasn't exported football violence in over 20 years?

Honestly, think.

Do you have anything other than your opinion to actually back that up though, because it seems that illustrations and examples abound that counter your opinion.

Go and list all the riots for the last 20 years in Scotland and compair them to my list.

If you want to be fairer, you could loosen that back to 40 years and include exported football violence too.

England loses significantly in comparison.

Again, they are just as likely to participate in political protest toward the UK Government as anyone else.

Not proportional to the violence no.

I'm not sure why you keep drawing this back to the Government, not all the riots relate to Westminster either.

Did the rioting not begin over the eviction of a squat and not the opening of Tesco?

Have not the protests against Tesco been completely peaceful until the eviction?

It is not any different, you are claiming that the Scottish are less violent as a group and the evidence simple doesn't support you.

Why were they squating castiel, oh yeah that's right they didn't want it to open.

No the localised protest has not been successful, they have undermined anything they gained in their argument.

Evidence does support it you are just ignorant and delusional.

You're entire contention that Scots as a group are less violent than the English is conjecture....

Yes, because the statistics prove it in this context suprise suprise.

One example is hardly indicative of anything, especially as the violence was sparked by a squat eviction rather than the opening of a convenience store.

Tesco opens a store in England every week, if not more, and many are subject to protests, that one has, with other factors, turned violent is not indicative of anything.

You are simply trying to impose a fictional national superiority that doesn't exist.

I'm fed up repeating myself, this has nothing to do with my nationality regardless of how desperate you are to implicate it.

Again, this isn't one example I've brought at least a dozon over the last two decades.

 

[Biohazard]

I am sorry but it is coming across like you are a bit of an anti-english bigot with this particular issue.

Bigotted for pointing out history?

Hahaha whatever.

You seem to be excusing any Scottish violence as irrelevant when talking about the English being violent.

Nonsense.

I perhaps attached reasoning to the others, that isn't exonerating it.

It is trying to give it a context, which I'm trying to find out here with England but all I get is called a bigot laughably and told irrelevent points.

I condem all violence.

Sorry your modern history is marred with it.

 

[Biohazard]

Their reason for smashing up Tesco's is that they didn't want a supermarket taking trade away from other small retailers, it's no excuse but it's the apparent reason.

I accept this, but it isn't reason enough for violence is it?

Why would these sort of lads I see in the photo actually care about that to the point of riot? (Presumptuous no doubt but come on)

 

[RDM]

Bigotted for pointing out history?

Hahaha whatever.

No bigoted for saying that England is violent and Scotland is not and then completely ignoring or stating as irrelevant Scottish violence.

But as you say "Whatever".

 

[Biohazard]

No bigoted for saying that England is violent and Scotland is not and then completely ignoring or stating as irrelevant Scottish violence.

But as you say "Whatever".

When it comes to protest the statistics would indicate this generally, yes.

"Scottish violence" on day to day street level has nothing to do with this, I'm not comparing crime statistics between the nations as a whole but looking at the scope of protesting.

Why this is so difficult to grasp is beyond me.

 

[Westyfield2]

People like this person in the photo are scum.

Could crop the police car out and they'd still be scum - wearing a vest and jeans around their arse!

 

[Crizzy]

OP is on a different planet, there is no excuse for that behaviour.

 

[bainbridge]

It's not the rioting which saddened me, its the guy on the left who moved in to attack them with a long jazz solo, nobody deserves that.