Broadband speed affected by lights?

TheVoice · 9 Apr 2013 at 00:36

Hi all, looking for some help here with a bizarre problem. I've noticed recently that my internet speed drops considerably (virtually to the point that nothing will load) whenever I turn my hallway lights on. I've tested the theory multiple times; if I start streaming internet radio for example, then turn the lights on, after a few seconds the player struggles to buffer. Turn them off again, and it immediately gets the stream back.

At first I thought it had something to do with the homeplugs I use to connect my PC to the router but I've done some more testing today and it also affects wi-fi via my tablet and my NAS (when it's downloading from the internet) which is connected directly to the router. Interestingly, LAN speeds e.g. transferring a file from my NAS to my PC, aren't affected at all. This has led me to to the conclusion that it's affecting the phoneline somehow.

It doesn't appear to be affecting the router's sync, it's not dropping the connection and I've tried putting the phone on speaker and turning the lights on and off, and I can't hear any noise or interference.

Any ideas what this could be? I changed a number of bulbs in the house over to LEDs a few weeks ago (starting with the hall) but this problem has only surfaced more recently. That said, I can and will try removing the LEDs and put normal bulbs back in, but even if that removes stops the speed drops it's not really going to fix actual cause.

A friend suggested it could be something to do with a shared ground between the lights and the phoneline, is this possible?

bremen1874 · 9 Apr 2013 at 01:02

You already appear to have proved that the lamps are the problem.

Low energy lamps are a common cause of interference, mobile phone chargers and low voltage power supplies are as well.

There shouldn't be any direct connection between your lighting and the phone line. There will however be connections between the lighting and your router via its power supply.

Clav · 9 Apr 2013 at 09:06

What type of broadband do you have? Sounds like ADSL?

Your testing has pretty much confirmed that somehow your hall lighting is affecting your homes internet connection. I'd be seriously considering getting an electrician in at this stage. Sounds like something is awry with your wiring somewhere and that would be setting off alarm bells in my head. Not just for the internet problem but what else could be going wrong with your electrics?

EnviableOne · 9 Apr 2013 at 09:42

I aggree with Clav, looks like theres something hinky going on inside your breaker box or with your router/NTE. Best to get a professional to take a look. Otherwise get your ISP to run a copper line test while you have the lights on, may get you a "decent" Openreach engineer, there is genrally an issues with CPP termination if your getting issues like this.

TheVoice · 9 Apr 2013 at 11:45

Clav, yep it's ADSL.

Oddly enough I have been having sync speed issues recently (used to get 3.2Mbps and it's recently dropped to 2.4) so it does sound like something isn't right somewhere. The problem is diagnosing it e.g. is it electrical or to do with the phoneline?

Craigius · 9 Apr 2013 at 12:42

Have you tried to test it connecting in to the test socket mate?

Nymins · 9 Apr 2013 at 12:46

Lights sometimes affect my homeplugs. Must be some dodgy wiring somewhere along the line. Strange it affects the wifi signal though.

TheVoice · 9 Apr 2013 at 13:05

Nymins said:
Lights sometimes affect my homeplugs. Must be some dodgy wiring somewhere along the line. Strange it affects the wifi signal though.

It's definitely affecting the phoneline, not the homeplugs and/or wi-fi. My NAS connected with a CAT5 cable straight to the router, and when I set a file downloading on the NAS (i.e. the NAS doing all the work itself) even it was hit by a loss of connectivity as soon as the lights went on. Similarly, I can copy files from my PC to the NAS (over the powerline adapters) without any speed problems even when the internet stops working.

Anyway, it seems to be the LED bulbs, I swapped the ones in the lounge over to normal bulbs and the internet works fine, so I'll do the hallway next. Interestingly, the hall and lounge are on the same RCB whereas the kitchen (also with LEDs) is on a different one. So it's got something to do with that specific circuit.

Electrician time I think.

Tealc · 9 Apr 2013 at 15:42

What happens if you attempt to sync with the hallway lights on?

Have you tried swapping other LED lights into the hallway, perhaps ones from a different manufacturer or different type. Some LED lights will use PWM which if designed badly may leak onto the mains line and affect the router.

REIN is such a pain to resolve. When I worked in ADSL support it always had possible rein as the cause on all line tests.

TheVoice · 9 Apr 2013 at 15:49

Tealc said:
What happens if you attempt to sync with the hallway lights on?

Have you tried swapping other LED lights into the hallway, perhaps ones from a different manufacturer or different type. Some LED lights will use PWM which if designed badly may leak onto the mains line and affect the router.

REIN is such a pain to resolve. When I worked in ADSL support it always had possible rein as the cause on all line tests.

Just tried it. Turned lights on, pulled the cable out the back of the router, waited a while and plugged it back in. Took a while to sync but it's done it, at 1.9Mbps (so a bit of a drop from normal), but it does appear to actually be working with the lights still on.

I've only got the one brand of LED bulbs to try, the suppliers of our solar panels gave them to us. They seemed like fairly good bulbs.

Line stats before:

Line stats when router synced with hall lights turned on:

Craigius · 9 Apr 2013 at 18:30

Hi mate have you tried connecting to the test socket on the master socket in the house?

Tealc · 9 Apr 2013 at 18:42

That's weird. You actually dropped 1.5dB on line attenuation by turning the lights on. Attenuation is normally pretty static. Your noise margin has increased as you'd expect with the drop in speed. I'm afraid this is not conclusive of anything.

As for the LEDs. What type are they? Do you hav a model number or something?

TheVoice · 9 Apr 2013 at 19:13

Craigius said:
Hi mate have you tried connecting to the test socket on the master socket in the house?

Yep, no difference, there doesn't appear to be any extensions going to it. The alarm system has a connection to the phoneline but I've no idea where that is.

Tealc said:
That's weird. You actually dropped 1.5dB on line attenuation by turning the lights on. Attenuation is normally pretty static. Your noise margin has increased as you'd expect with the drop in speed. I'm afraid this is not conclusive of anything.

As for the LEDs. What type are they? Do you hav a model number or something?

I tried something: turned off the circuits for the lights at the breaker box, disconnected the router, phone etc, sorted out all the cables and plugged the router, DECT charger and my NAS into a surge protector. Connected the phone and ADSL lines again and turned the HomeHub back on (still with the circuits turned off) and here's the result:

The LED bulbs are marked on the box as "E27-24SMD-WW-D" (not much joy on Google with that), they don't appear to be a specific brand though, they're dimmable though which would tend to suggest they're not the lowest-quality ones around, but I could be wrong. I don't have them on dimmer-switches, for what it's worth.

They look like this:
http://i.imgur.com/PRiJe07.jpg

Sin_Chase · 9 Apr 2013 at 23:15

Holy attenuation batman!

Tealc · 9 Apr 2013 at 23:36

I don't know much about led lights apart from the non dimmable ones I have that just use a bridge rectifier and resistors. To get dimming they must have some sort of PWM circuit somewhere and that means it'll be switching on and off quickly. Interference from this switching shouldn't feed back into the power circuit but sometimes it does. Perhaps you can replace the led bulbs with non dimmer in the hallway and this will alleviate your problem.

The ones I got were from eBay for about £3 each and have no dimmer circuit.

The LEDs you have is described perfectly by their part number. 24 LED Warm white dimmable. I guess E27 is probably the bulb type.

Craigius · 10 Apr 2013 at 12:53

Next thing to try would be a different router?

dont know if you have seen this....

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/20...nd-isp-and-christmas-tree-lights-warning.html

"When putting up the tree this year, don’t forget that some Christmas tree lights (especially some flashing ones) can cause intermittent connection faults. So, if you think you’ve got a broadband fault please remember to turn your lights off for a while and see if that cures the problem before calling.

Some tree lights generate RF interference which can affect broadband ADSL. It’s best to keep your Christmas tree lights and wiring well away from your telephone cables.

Some people have suggested that one way of detecting interference is to tune an analogue radio to Medium Wave 612 through to 693, which should buzz when you wave the radio near problematical tree lights. We’ve not tried this though and you may have more than one source (RF band) of interference."

TheVoice · 11 Apr 2013 at 13:06

The thing is, if it was RF interference it'd surely be caused by the LED bulbs that are in the same room as the router too, but it's not. I can have the lights on in the kitchen and the internet speeds stay the same, it only drops when I turn them on in the lounge or the hall.

Don't have a spare router to test with unfortunately.

Craigius · 12 Apr 2013 at 07:32

I see what you are saying mate could you move the router to a differnt room at all maybe wire an extension up in the house relocate the router and use the homeplugs to push the internet signal around the house.

BetterOffLiving · 12 Apr 2013 at 09:15

There is definitely a problem with wiring, either internal or on BT lines. 3000 CRC errors in 2 hours is very high. Basically the data is corrupt when hitting your router, so it has to re-request the data.

Can you try moving the router to the first connected socket? To try and rule out internal wiring. Any long cables connecting from wall socket to router? If still getting high CRC errors, then you will need to call BT to get them to have a look.

TheVoice · 12 Apr 2013 at 13:58

Craigius said:
I see what you are saying mate could you move the router to a differnt room at all maybe wire an extension up in the house relocate the router and use the homeplugs to push the internet signal around the house.

Just tried a different socket in the bedroom:

That's the only other phone socket I know of, there's one in another of the spare rooms but it was just fed from an extension cable plugged into the original socket I was using; it hasn't been connected for months.

BetterOffLiving said:
There is definitely a problem with wiring, either internal or on BT lines. 3000 CRC errors in 2 hours is very high. Basically the data is corrupt when hitting your router, so it has to re-request the data.

Can you try moving the router to the first connected socket? To try and rule out internal wiring. Any long cables connecting from wall socket to router? If still getting high CRC errors, then you will need to call BT to get them to have a look.

No long cables or anything, just using the standard supplied stuff with the router, straight to a filter which goes direct into the socket. There's only one phone attached to the entire line.

Edit: OK, just turned on the hallway lights again, and same problem still occurs. Internet slowed down, my internet radio is struggling to buffer, CRC events just went from 0 to 1604 in about 25 seconds. Lights off, straight back to normal again. Aaaaargh!

Edit 2: Found another socket on the opposite end of the kitchen (hidden behind a noticeboard), slightly higher sync speed but all the other stats are about the same as before. Same problem with the lights though.