Brocade switches?

Soldato
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We're doing a full refresh of our network infrastructure, currently putting out to tender.

One company is really trying to push Brocade switches (we're currently 100% Cisco). Does anyone know much about Brocade? Are they a viable alternative to Cisco, or indeed HP Procurve?

Cheers.
 
Associate
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We trialed a few brocade switches instead of our usual cisco. They come with a nice management suite handy if you need to find where a device is plugged in and all you know is the IP. (yes i know you can do this with cisco if the arp tables are working correctly).

We didnt really have any issues with them but because everyone here was used to cisco we decided to stick with cisco.
 
Soldato
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(yes i know you can do this with cisco if the arp tables are working correctly).

You've got bigger problems if they are not... If you prefer a GUI, Cisco Prime can show you where something is connected to by searching for its hostname, IP or mac address.

I'd rate Brocade with Extreme. Cisco and Juniper would be at the top of my list.
 
Caporegime
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Brocade are garbage. Fine if you need someone to make a fiber channel switch, not great for ethernet.

By all means take the pricing and use it as a target for Cisco to match, which they will.

Edit: Garbage is a bit strong, but I wouldn't want them unless the budgets really didn't allow anything better.
 
Soldato
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Brocade make great FC switches - wouldn't hesitate to get them for that use.

For everything else you really can't go wrong with Cisco. Nobody ever gets sacked for purchasing Cisco switches.
 
Soldato
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Problem with Brocade Ethernet switches, and other niche vendors, is finding assistance if you have a problem.

We're doing a lot of HPE ComWare switches now. ComWare 7 is a great OS. The low to mid range models (1950, 5130, 5510, 5700) have a really good web interface. The 5700 is available as a 32 port 10G copper plus 8 10G SPF+ full L3 functionality for well under £4K after discount. IRF stacking is way more flexible than Cisco.

I've gone right off Cisco after the 3850's. The days of buying Cisco because they will just work seems to be over with these. We've had problems with every deployment we've done from firmware bugs causing PoE phones to keep rebooting to faulty units. Getting them to stack seems to be a complete lottery and the stack cables are awful bulky things. The OS is massive (200Mb+) and they take ages to boot. I've told our sales team to put an extra days services on any 3850 quotes because they seem to be a PITA to get working properly.
 
Don
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Never been a fan of closed vendors like brocade, extreme or even Cisco. When I can't even get a quote (or even ballpark figures) without contacting a reseller then it personally it rings a few alarm bells for me.

We used to be a exclusively 3com and have continued on with HP switches after they took over. Being able to buy from almost any online supplier and no messy licenses or support agreements to understand makes decision making quick and easy.

Lifetime warranty on hp switches has been painless as well on the couple of occasions we have needed it, with next day replacement no questions asked.
 
Soldato
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I've gone right off Cisco after the 3850's. The days of buying Cisco because they will just work seems to be over with these. We've had problems with every deployment we've done from firmware bugs causing PoE phones to keep rebooting to faulty units. Getting them to stack seems to be a complete lottery and the stack cables are awful bulky things. The OS is massive (200Mb+) and they take ages to boot. I've told our sales team to put an extra days services on any 3850 quotes because they seem to be a PITA to get working properly.


An extra day? What are you doing? I did a 3850 install last week, 3 switches in a stack and took no more then 3 hours to configure, rack and repatch approximately 125 points.

The launch IOS did have problems with pre standard PoE, and they do seem to take a long time to boot (about 15 minutes (what are they doing?)). Changing the IOS needs to have a 30 minute downtime window too. Stacking cables seem fine and as long as you insert them properly in a complete loop, I've never had a problem with them joining a stack.
 
Soldato
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An extra day because when we have problems with these, it's invariably been a day or more time spent to fix them.

I've remembered another gotcha with these - they don't like the MAC address used by a HA pair of WatchGuard firewalls. You can never ping the HA IP from the switch.

I found the stacking cables don't actually connect electrically until the thumbscrews are tightened. Connecting multiple new switches to the stack is a complete lottery, so you end up having to boot them one by one, waiting for each unit to finish booting before powering on the next one. At 15 minutes to boot, the 7 unit stack I built last was painful. Then the software versions didn't match - we had 2 SFP+ units which were newer, so it went through the update process which killed one of the other units - it never booted again. Called Cisco to get it replaced, only to be told as we had only just put them on SmartNet, we had to wait 30 days from the start of the agreement to get a replacement. It's in the T&C's but I'd have never thought they'd hold you to them for a very common part number.
 
Soldato
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I found the stacking cables don't actually connect electrically until the thumbscrews are tightened. Connecting multiple new switches to the stack is a complete lottery, so you end up having to boot them one by one, waiting for each unit to finish booting before powering on the next one. At 15 minutes to boot, the 7 unit stack I built last was painful.

Rack switch 1, power up, patch, check it has finished booting. Rack switch 2, insert both stacking cables, boot, patch, check it has joined the stack. Rack switch 2, connect both stacking cables, boot, patch, check it has joined the stack. etc. Alternatively stack them all in pre stage and label them.

Then the software versions didn't match

Extremely unusual from switches from the same order. I've done hundreds of 3750/3850's and have this happen. Upgrading from a USB flash drive would be the easiest method to resolve this. Again, you can easily manage to complete this in a day with a 7 unit stack.


we had 2 SFP+ units which were newer, so it went through the update process which killed one of the other units - it never booted again. Called Cisco to get it replaced, only to be told as we had only just put them on SmartNet, we had to wait 30 days from the start of the agreement to get a replacement. It's in the T&C's but I'd have never thought they'd hold you to them for a very common part number.


Can always claim they are from a different stack that was already covered but DoA is frustrating but can happen with any manufacturer.
 
Caporegime
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I can't understand the love for the 3com range. That's been my main issue with HP - the ProView stuff (now called Aruba) is fine but not hugely cheaper than Cisco, but they were up until recently relying on the parts from different acquisitions (3com, H3C) to fill the holes in the portfolio, which means different types of CLI, different terminologies etc. that you might as well have been giving people different vendors to try and work with. Their warranty is good but Smartnet isn't that expensive even if TAC are useless (there's an email address that you can send a case number to and it gets re-queued and assigned to a different agent, I can't find the details on it at the moment), Extreme's support isn't that expensive either as a percentage of the purchase price, and the same CLI operates across the product range. I wouldn't let "access to quality support costs money" be the barrier to purchasing a switch model, since you'd probably want the optional HP support anyway if you were doing an important deployment.

Ultimately when you aren't buying total crap like D-Link, Netgear etc. then anybody with a bit of networking knowledge should be able to figure out these things, and HP do supply conversion charts to put common IOS commands into ProView / Comware language (I hate Comware with a passion) so it's not all bad. I don't think there are huge savings to be had when choosing between the high-end vendors that aren't Cisco who are increasingly dining out on their past reputation as opposed to bringing much new stuff to the table. Just use what's comfortable - I wouldn't buy a Juniper guy an HP switch to save a few hundred quid because it's not worth it.
 
Don
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That's been my main issue with HP - the ProView stuff (now called Aruba) is fine but not hugely cheaper than Cisco

I am pretty impressed with the latest Aruba kit (2930F's) that we have at work - The new UI (when they actually finish it), will be much better than the "old" HP offering.

CLI doesn't interest me in the slightest (probably explains why I am so averse to Cisco kit) - just seems like a license to print money with Cisco courses/certifications, needing "lab" kit etc. Will stick with my web page - does everything I need it to do :)
 
Caporegime
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IOS and ExtremeXOS and ProView are pretty much the same and easy to flip between if you know the concepts of what you're doing. And if you don't know the concepts then you shouldn't be in the web UI either ;)

The CLI is about four million times faster than using the web UI for getting a basic configuration in place - some VLANs, voice VLAN, RPVST bridge priority set etc. rather than clicking through hundreds of pages. I can see the appeal of the web UI though and wouldn't want to dismiss the need for one.
 
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Associate
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Blimey I was berating an engineer for taking all day to setup a stack of 7 3850's, next day someone did 15 switches in 3 different stacks (more like it).

We've just gone with global deployment of 3850 to implement 802.1x / Trustsec - a decision made in the US - of course 75% of the racks in EMEA (600+ sites, anything from 1 rack to 100+) you can't actually fit a 3850 in. The rack replacement work is actually a more time consuming project than the switch replacement project!
 
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