BT complaint - what is reasonable?

Soldato
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14 Jul 2007
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3,443
I am having tremendous issues with BT and my internet connection and was wondering if anyone has had any methods for getting a decent outcome from call centre type complaints without feeling the need to throw themselves out of a window or in front of a passing train.

To cut a long story short I got a fibre install in March to replace my ordinary connection, it worked flawlessly for a week with speeds as advertised and all was good. It then began dropping out for increasing periods of time until the point came where it was completely unreliable and latterly even when it was connected speeds had dropped to an unacceptably low level making it largely unusable.

As things stand I have made 17 different phone calls to BT, had one engineer visit, taken a day off work for an engineer visit where the engineer didn’t turn up because the call centre operator made a mess of booking it, sat in waiting for phone calls that have never been made to me and just generally had a horrendous experience which is still ongoing.

I have now been escalated to a complaints person who I’m now dealing with directly and hopefully it will be sorted out in the next wee while. When this happens there will then be the inevitable question regarding what I am compensated for and what is reasonable to ask for back. I don’t believe in a compensation culture and I have no problem accepting that things go wrong and need to be fixed and that people make mistakes, however I feel this has gone on far longer than it should have and that I have gone out of my way to be reasonable and to give them opportunities to fix things. I obviously expect to be credited for the actual payments Ive made to BT for a service that doesn’t work, and possibly the activation fee Ive paid too but over and above that what do people think?

17 phone calls taking no less than 20 mins each – up to an hour in many cases

Travelled 26 miles back to the property to let an engineer in having been cold called to say he needed access to fix the fault

Taken a days leave from work for a second engineer visit who as explained above was never going to come.

Potential for another days leave from work for another visit if the problem cant be solved externally

Waiting in the house for call backs from the network team that never arrived

Subscriptions that I cannot use because the service remains broken – Netflix, Spotify etc etc.


At what point does the constant messing me about become unreasonable? I have no problem with the day off work, or the travelling to let the engineer in or indeed waiting in for call backs – had they happened and/or fixed the problem but due to the ineptitude of the staff they have not. I have done all that’s been asked of me and still don’t have a functioning service. Am I entitled to ask for compensation for this and what will they say. Basically what is reasonable?
 
Soldato
Joined
13 Jul 2005
Posts
19,287
Location
Norfolk, South Scotland
I am having tremendous issues with BT and my internet connection and was wondering if anyone has had any methods for getting a decent outcome from call centre type complaints without feeling the need to throw themselves out of a window or in front of a passing train.

To cut a long story short I got a fibre install in March to replace my ordinary connection, it worked flawlessly for a week with speeds as advertised and all was good. It then began dropping out for increasing periods of time until the point came where it was completely unreliable and latterly even when it was connected speeds had dropped to an unacceptably low level making it largely unusable.

As things stand I have made 17 different phone calls to BT, had one engineer visit, taken a day off work for an engineer visit where the engineer didn’t turn up because the call centre operator made a mess of booking it, sat in waiting for phone calls that have never been made to me and just generally had a horrendous experience which is still ongoing.

I have now been escalated to a complaints person who I’m now dealing with directly and hopefully it will be sorted out in the next wee while. When this happens there will then be the inevitable question regarding what I am compensated for and what is reasonable to ask for back. I don’t believe in a compensation culture and I have no problem accepting that things go wrong and need to be fixed and that people make mistakes, however I feel this has gone on far longer than it should have and that I have gone out of my way to be reasonable and to give them opportunities to fix things. I obviously expect to be credited for the actual payments Ive made to BT for a service that doesn’t work, and possibly the activation fee Ive paid too but over and above that what do people think?

17 phone calls taking no less than 20 mins each – up to an hour in many cases

Travelled 26 miles back to the property to let an engineer in having been cold called to say he needed access to fix the fault

Taken a days leave from work for a second engineer visit who as explained above was never going to come.

Potential for another days leave from work for another visit if the problem cant be solved externally

Waiting in the house for call backs from the network team that never arrived

Subscriptions that I cannot use because the service remains broken – Netflix, Spotify etc etc.


At what point does the constant messing me about become unreasonable? I have no problem with the day off work, or the travelling to let the engineer in or indeed waiting in for call backs – had they happened and/or fixed the problem but due to the ineptitude of the staff they have not. I have done all that’s been asked of me and still don’t have a functioning service. Am I entitled to ask for compensation for this and what will they say. Basically what is reasonable?

BT have a structure that compensates you in so many free months of access. That's about as much as you'll get I'm afraid. I had a complete nightmare getting a new line installed at a rented building I was using as an office. BT kept confusing the upper and lower floors of the building - the tenants downstairs already had a phone line and a broadband contract. It took something like 5 months to get a line connected and I eventually got about 9 months free access including line rental. It certainly didn't compensate me for my time or wasted efforts, but it's all that's available.
 
Man of Honour
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91,151
In the past I've gone through the motions of the normal customer service and if they've not managed to sort in in a reasonable time i.e. about 2 weeks for a line issue then I've gone to the top who've allocated me an executive level complaints contact who have dealt with the issue very well - shame the normal customer service isn't half as good.
 
Soldato
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Yeah Ive been escalated too and things actually seem to be happening at last. In the grand scheme of things I suppose its not a massive deal but in all honesty its taken up a ridiculous amount of my time and Ive got to the stage where Im sick of coming home and having to phone them on an almost nightly basis.

I really don't feel its reasonable to lose a days leave either. That's the real kick in the stones for me. I accepted having to take a day off for another visit despite the first engineer saying there was no issues with the property when he visited and had I received the courtesy of a call to say they couldn't make it or had the visit not fixed the problem but they at least looked at it then I would write it off. The issue is the fact that because it wasn't properly booked I was never going to get an engineer calling round so I completely wasted the day and was no further forward. I don't think that's acceptable at all.
 
Caporegime
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Like I said email them, I personally did it when BT were messing my parents around and I got a reply within hours and a promise to sort it out.
 
Soldato
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Like I said email them, I personally did it when BT were messing my parents around and I got a reply within hours and a promise to sort it out.

The sorting out of it now appears to be in hand, had it not been I would certainly have used the email in a "worth a try" sort of way so thanks for posting it. I'm looking more towards how reasonable or unreasonable I'm being about them reimbursing me for the lost time and service over the last couple of months.

As an aside the guy who took care of the "escalated" complaint said he was "limited" in what avenues were open to him in terms of compensation and that if what was eventually offered was not acceptable there was avenues for further escalation. I simply listed my experience with them over the length of the fault as Ive done above and asked him if he thought my experience was reasonable and if I was being unreasonable in look to be reimbursed for my time spent sitting in the house and my loss of a day of annual leave for a visit that was never going to take place. He was forced to say "yes I take your point, I see what you mean". I have no intention of being rude or whating something for nothing I just think they have been absolutely painful to deal with and I shouldn't be out of pocket for their ineptitude.
 
Soldato
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And you won't be out of pocket. That phrase is actually at the core of BTs compensation structure.

BT's compensation structure is published.

You get your daily line rental and charges returned to you and if they miss an appointment you get £10. It's in the terms and conditions.

If you suffer actual financial loss (not a day's PAID leave) then you can claim that.

If you were not paid for your holiday and you took a day off work then you could claim actual financial loss, but you haven't actually lost any money, you've just wasted a day's paid leave. And that's not covered. Because technically, you're not actually out of pocket.

The compensation will be taken off your next bill or bills.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9394/~/customer-service-guarantee
 
Soldato
OP
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3,443
And you won't be out of pocket. That phrase is actually at the core of BTs compensation structure.

BT's compensation structure is published.

You get your daily line rental and charges returned to you and if they miss an appointment you get £10. It's in the terms and conditions.

If you suffer actual financial loss (not a day's PAID leave) then you can claim that.

If you were not paid for your holiday and you took a day off work then you could claim actual financial loss, but you haven't actually lost any money, you've just wasted a day's paid leave. And that's not covered. Because technically, you're not actually out of pocket.

The compensation will be taken off your next bill or bills.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9394/~/customer-service-guarantee

Hmm, thanks for that. I see your point, thats clearly going to be the get out for them.

I'm out of pocket to the tune of one days leave. Can you put a value on that? I suspect they can't and won't. The bottom line is their service is so horrendous (from what i've seen from others and googling) they would probably in financial peril if they actually properly compensated people!

£10 for a missed visit is a bit of a joke when they won't give you more of a time slot than "morning" or "afternoon", however they didn't miss an appointment with me, the failed to actually arrange it due to their operators incompetence. I suspect this £10 is meant for when the engineer is too busy or other appointments over-run.

Anyway, turn out its still not fixed although its being worked on. Another engineer visit booked for Tuesday (subject to a confirmation phone call tomorrow) so we will see what happens.

To give a further example of their systems the guys actually said to be "I don't really want to book the appointment because Im not convinced it will go through so I don't want you sitting in only to have no one turn up again." How is that even possible?!
 
Soldato
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I think if you want to play the game (and I would given the nonsense they're putting you through) I would definitely claim for the additional journeys to and from home (45p/mile for 52 miles round trip) as often as you needed to make a special trip and literally anything else you can think of where you actually spent money on top of what you would normally do.

As to the value of your paid leave that is your net (after all deductions) annual income divided by (52 x 5)-8 (the -8 covers statutory holidays unless you work in the food industry where the statutory holidays are commonly included in the annual leave allowance). It can be quite a lot of money to take a day off work. If you can ask your line manager to give you a letter saying the leave was unpaid then you can claim that.

I work on contracts so if I don't work, I don't get paid. That was an easy claim from BT Business!
 
Soldato
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As expected they refunded my broadband costs for when I had no service and offered me £50 which I rejected so its been further escalated and I'll get a call back next week. I'm not expecting anything better but I'll see what they say. Engineer cam eon Tuesday and whilst not being 100% convinced he had solved the issue, Im now getting the speed promised and have had no loss of service since so hopefully we are near the end of the road!
 
Soldato
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Short version: Unless you deal with the CEO's office, you will get relatively minimal compensation.

In our case they cocked up royally, failed to follow the process in dealing with the issue and despite explaining which process they needed to follow and even what they needed to do in order to fix it, I got nowhere (I used to work in the industry and even resorted to dealing with the non customer facing ports team in desperation). Outcome was we didn't pay for anything for the whole time we had the service and they waived the contract and let us move back to Sky. We also bagged the Quidco cash back and the pre-paid Visa, so that was about £360 from memory along with 2-3 months of full service FOC - all in all we'll have cleared £500. That said they left us without call care (the emergency system by which the emergency services can be called in the event they are required by the occupant and were well aware from the outset that the line was eligible for priority faults as the user is registered as disabled) and I was livid, I lost a day, had to do a 90 mile trip and it took them an engineer visit to solve something that could be taken care of in 30 seconds without a truck roll.
 
Soldato
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What bothers me most is how widespread the complaints about them are when you look into it. I appreciate that if you supply a lot of people you will proportionally have a lot of complaints but they seem to have a system in place that is designed to frustrate and annoy. They also seem completed unable to do what they say they will when they say they will. Its an absolute exercise in frustration dealing with them.
 
Caporegime
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As expected they refunded my broadband costs for when I had no service and offered me £50 which I rejected so its been further escalated and I'll get a call back next week. I'm not expecting anything better but I'll see what they say. Engineer cam eon Tuesday and whilst not being 100% convinced he had solved the issue, Im now getting the speed promised and have had no loss of service since so hopefully we are near the end of the road!
£50 compensation is a fair amount relative to your issues TBH. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't offer anything more and issue you a 'deadlock' letter. Then you can use their 'alternative dispute resolution' process or complain to OFCOM but OFCOM aren't magical beings. The bare minimum any provider is duty bound to give back is loss of service and a 'fair' amount for inconvenience. I would be pretty surprised if you get more than the original £50 offered and perhaps a further offer on your account or something like that.
 
Caporegime
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25,735
What bothers me most is how widespread the complaints about them are when you look into it. I appreciate that if you supply a lot of people you will proportionally have a lot of complaints but they seem to have a system in place that is designed to frustrate and annoy. They also seem completed unable to do what they say they will when they say they will. Its an absolute exercise in frustration dealing with them.
Most complained about provider per 1,000 customers in the most recent OFCOM survey. I wouldn't go with them in a million years. If you include EE and Plusnet together they're far, far worse than any other provider. As is the case with a lot of companies if you don't speak to them and nothing goes wrong, you'll be fine.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/ass...on-Telecoms-and-Pay-TV-Complaints-Q4-2016.pdf
 
Man of Honour
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What bothers me most is how widespread the complaints about them are when you look into it. I appreciate that if you supply a lot of people you will proportionally have a lot of complaints but they seem to have a system in place that is designed to frustrate and annoy. They also seem completed unable to do what they say they will when they say they will. Its an absolute exercise in frustration dealing with them.

BT mostly just work to be fair - I've had lines that have ran for like 10 years at the same connection speed with maybe an hour or so downtime in that entire time (other than the 1-2 days they had widespread issues due to flooding) - the problem is when you do have an issue its like all they can do is go around and around in a loop with frontline support with no 2 support people have any idea what the other is doing or your details - if the normal customer service was even half what you get when you escalate to executive level complaints it would be a completely different story.
 
Soldato
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£50 compensation is a fair amount relative to your issues TBH. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't offer anything more and issue you a 'deadlock' letter. Then you can use their 'alternative dispute resolution' process or complain to OFCOM but OFCOM aren't magical beings. The bare minimum any provider is duty bound to give back is loss of service and a 'fair' amount for inconvenience. I would be pretty surprised if you get more than the original £50 offered and perhaps a further offer on your account or something like that.

If that's how it ends so be it. I wouldn't be bothered but its really the principle of the thing.

They have said that the £50 is a offer as a goodwill gesture. That's fine but they give you £10 automatically for missing a visit so that is £40. Given that I subscribe to Spotify (£15p/m) and Netflix (£6 p/m?) and have been able to use neither for 2 months that's the goodwill gesture gone straight away to cover that loss.

The massive issue I have is that I took a days leave for an appointment that they actually never made on their side. Had it been a normal missed appointment due to a backlog or other jobs taking longer than expected and then not getting to mine that would be one thing but its completely taking the pee to have me take a day off work for a visit that was never actually taking place and as a result take ANOTHER day off work for the actual visit when they managed to get around to booking it properly. To me that isn't unforeseen circumstances or anything beyond their control. I also sat in the house for an entire evening waiting on a network engineer to phone me who never did and spent a morning waiting for a return phone call that I was assured would be "within the next half hour".

These are the things that bug me well above and beyond the 20 other phone calls Ive had to make, or the actual loss of service. Its the things that they could have easily achieved were they doing the very basics. With the best will in the world I know things go wrong and things break, I also know things can be difficult to fix. I don't accept not returning calls or not being able to book a simple appointment.
 
Soldato
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BT mostly just work to be fair - I've had lines that have ran for like 10 years at the same connection speed with maybe an hour or so downtime in that entire time (other than the 1-2 days they had widespread issues due to flooding) - the problem is when you do have an issue its like all they can do is go around and around in a loop with frontline support with no 2 support people have any idea what the other is doing or your details - if the normal customer service was even half what you get when you escalate to executive level complaints it would be a completely different story.

Absolutely agree. It was a whole different ball game when it was escalated which Ive been at pains to point out to them because these guys were really good. Only serves to illustrate how bad the normal service is as you say.
 
Soldato
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And so it continues.......

Told I would definitely have my escalated compensation discussion responded to by 3pm on Tuesday. Of course no phone call. Half 5 on Wednesday my phone rings (despite telling them to ring my wifes number), by the time I get to the phone its rung off. Call the number back to find its the usual "this is BT we tried calling and if we need to get in touch we will call back later" message.

So I call the main number, get through to an advisor and explain the missed call. I am told the person who was due to phone me back is off until Friday. I say thats funny because they phoned 5 mins ago as I just explained. Suddenly the person IS at work but because of the system they operate they can neither transfer me to her nor give me a number to call her on directly. They can only send her an email to call me back immediately. I ask them to do that, they say they have done it. I have heard nothing since.

So thats another two incidents of not being called when a call has been promised. Nothing to do with a fault, loss of service or anything tangible, just them wasting yet more of my time and me having to phone to complain about them not doing what they promise with them then unable to do anything because of their "system". This is why I haven't accepted their £50.
 
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