Build: 24/7 Folding Rig Advice

[FMTopfan]

Hello all

I've been wanting to build my own 24/7 Folding rig for a while but the combination of what components to pick for some decent points and other factors (spending money that could go on a holiday!) has delayed progress. I specialise in buildings mainly gaming/general work PCs and not Folding PCs - I don't know what hardware the F@H clients favours over another but I did read through some of the posts here.

A bit uncertain
From reading the various posts on here, the consensus is to pick a 2600K for -bigadv points but how many can I expect in a day? If I only run SMP then is it wrong to assume that I won't need a good GPU at all? Or, can I expect more points from GPUs but at a huge cost?

I have a good gaming rig atm but when it comes to folding, factoring in these would help:
- Heat: I would appreciate it if this rig didn't make me feel like i'm in a sauna since it will be in the same room as my main rig - the heat will be handy nearer winter .
- Costs: Nothing too exotic.
- Case: Compact case is ideal but not if it means components overheat, will spend more here for a really good case.

Tried to keep this initial post short and would appreciate suggestions from regular Folders on what has worked for them or better, thanks!

• build list to date here

Note: I do have my work PC which is based around an old Intel QX6700 @3.3GHz air cooled, 8GB DDR2 800MHz, 4870, and a 1KW 80% efficient PSU that is too much power for that setup. For the power it uses this setup is too energy-inefficiency. I over compensated, I know

 

[FMTopfan]

Thanks for the replies

I've never built a micro-ATX PC before and because of the lack of space in the room I use, decided to go that route. From the dozen or so cases I've read about, the Silverstone Sugo SG01B-F looks promising. The case fits larger GPUs than it would do otherwise, and for the Micro-ATX design it looks good. Should I use the supplied Intel cooler because of the Micro-ATX design and will it manage the temps running Folding 24/7?

[ Updated 23rd May '11 ] So far I've based the build around these parts (some I can get cheaper elsewhere), but feels free to correct me if there a better alternative .....

CPU : Intel Core i7-2600K (Retail) - £255
(thoughts: best bang per buck, not priced competitively on ocuk)

Mobo choice 1 : Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H Intel Z68 (Micro-ATX) - £110
(thoughts: picked for use of overclocking CPU whilst saving energy using Intel GPU, M-ATX factor, and slightly cheaper than Asus)
OR
Mobo choice 2 : Asus P8P67-M PRO Intel P67 (Micro-ATX) - £115
(thoughts: picked for price and M-ATX factor, love Asus mobos)

CPU COOLER : Corsair Hydro H70 - £80
(thoughts: H50/H60 not good enough but H70 with dual 120mm fans will keep thermals within limits. could be noisy so will buy better fans after testing.)

RAM choice 1 : G.Skill RipJawsX 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-17000C9 2133MHz - £50
(thoughts: near maximum bandwidth for a bit more cash, could get another pair as it is a reasonable £50.)
OR
RAM choice 2 : OCZ Special OPS 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit - £42
(thoughts: more bandwidth and similar spec to 1333MHz modules, priced same or less too.)

CASE: Xigmatek Asgard Midi Tower Case (Micro ATX / Black) - £29.60
(thoughts: nice design, great price and small whilst being big enough to fit H70's 120mm exhaust fans. good recommendation by danewesley)

FAN CONTROLLER : Scythe Kaze Master Ace 5.25inch (Black) - £33.70
(thoughts: not essential but worth having to maintain low heat/noise in conjunction with H70s exhaust fans)

PSU 1 : Corsair Builder Series CX 600W V2 80% - £55
(thoughts: based on price & reliability. 90% CPU usage equals estimated load of 550W)
OR
PSU 2 : Cooler Master Silent Pro Modular 500W 85% - £68
(thoughts: based on silence & better efficiency but not enough juice)

OS : Linux x64
(thoughts: because its free and will gain more points than Windows)


Spare Components To Use
PSU : 600W (80% efficient) ENERMAX Noisetaker EG701AX-VE SFMA(24P) [from 2005]
HDD : 500GB Sata-150 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10, 16MB Buffer [from 2006]
FANS : A couple of salvaged 120mm fans
​

Total of £626.30. I know I get this price down by shopping around. Price by using existing PSU is down to £558.30.

 

[FMTopfan]

Why I can't use the brilliant Corsair's is because the Micro ATX case I'm using has 80mm exhaust fans, there is simply no space for it. Otherwise the heatsink would be ideal. Corsair need to release Micro versions of this.

 

[FMTopfan]

Id get this over the case above, same price, bigger, all black inside, better build quality.

Nice suggestion danewesley . My last 4 cases were all black (interior/exterior) and this would look nice alongside it - and at a similar price-point of the previous suggestion.

From the measurements (185(W) x 475(D) x 408(H) mm + 5.6KG) it would be nice if this case wasn't as long (D) as its just 100mm smaller than my full tower case (Corsair 800D) but 200mm shorter (H). I really wish OCUK would make it easy and simply put the measurements at the bottom (and the weight), there's simply too many cases!

On a positive... the case is now a good size/price to pick up a Corsair H60 to cool a 24/7 F@H rig to do it the lazy way, uses the supplied 120mm exhaust fan for Corsair cooler, a standard ATX PSU fits, plenty of HDD bays but not a necessity. I would consider water but I've never built my own CPU loop - if someone with expertise could list the components to fit Micro-ATX case (note: CPU will be clocked to 4.6GHz) I would certainly have fun doing it myself for once

 

[FMTopfan]

Folding, small rig, easy (Sort of) http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18046350

Had a look at your build log and you've done a great job. You've also gave me an idea of using a Scythe Kaze Master Ace 5.25inch Fan Controller as loved the look of it on your photos.

Because your case was Micro ATX, you said heat was a problem despite using a Corsair H50. For my Folding rig, this hasn't got to be an issue otherwise its a waste of cash buying the 2600K to get near 4.6GHz clocks, thats why I'm glad danewesley + dekez pointed me in the right direction. I was going for convenience (space) over functionality. Because of the larger case I could get the H70 to rule out excess heat due to improved design and dual 120mm fans.

Marine Iguana; If you have any ideas/pointers whilst in the planning stage for decent amount of Folding points in this build then please make a post. Things have moved on since you've built that rig

 

[FMTopfan]

Thanks for the info Biffa on exactly what I can expect with 2600K, I was talking to my mate about possibly getting around 50K PPD and he said it sounded too unrealistic with that setup - don't worry Biffa as I'll always take your word over his I know from current setup, test-running SMP client over a week - without commands - the most I've earned is 21K PPD. With bigadv added running 24/7 plus bonuses, 45-50k PPD should be reachable. I could still run this rig overnight (8hours) to help with added points.

You suggestion for multicore CPUs was something I considered but this time I have to take a happy medium of getting 50K PPD for an outlay of around £600 vs 150K+PPD on the Intel SR2 route for £2.5K. I would love to do that but then I would love my gaming rig to have those specs.

I may be placing my unused 4870 in mix but that means from calculations I will need a 600W PSU and not a 500W based on 90% load. With the Mobo I choose (Asus P8P67-M) it's a shame I couldn't simply use the Intel onboard GPU to keep the noise/power/heat down. I think the upcoming Z-series of SB mobos enables you to overclock the CPU whilst still using the Intel GPU but it could be while until a Micro-ATX version surfaces.

 

[FMTopfan]

Folding on a 4870 in the same rig will kill bigadv performance, sell it and slap the cheapest pcie card you can get in there and use the money to get faster memory.

Hi Biffa. I don't plan on using a 4870 for GPU folding just SMP folding. From what I recall with all P67 mobos guidelines, you need a discrete GPU as the mobo doesn't allow you to use the Intel 3000 unless you buy a H67 mobo in which it's then possible to forgo discrete GPUs. The Z67s are out but I haven't seen any Micro-ATX versions (to fit M-ATX case) to enable the ideal scenario of overclocked CPU + using Intel's onboard GPU which the H67 budget version doesn't allow you do.

You suggested getting better RAM: Would folding time improve that much with RAM above 1600MHz? If so, what speed is optimal? (I'm think 2133MHz as the CPU behaviour doesn't run 2000MHz RAM, it defaults to 1866MHz).

 

[FMTopfan]

Hi Delboy, in this situation I don't have much room in my office to have a workbench, despite having a mega desk which has various office gadgets/equipment on. Because it will be placed near to my near silent H20 gaming rig I would notice the annoying noise coming from an open setup. That is something I have considered but since I won't be fiddling with the hardware once setup as a folding rig, it defeats the purpose of it being accessible. Better for this folding rig to be enclosed in this time


As for saving electricity (a folders constant thought with constant rises in costs) by having no external HID attached or even optical drive is a nice idea, no matter how little it saves this all adds up. It may save 1p a day but it all adds up. Once OS is installed with essential drivers the optical drive will be removed.

Following that idea, loudbob has pointed out a nice Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H (Micro ATX) which means I can forget installing a discrete GPU whatsoever, saving enough power to get away with buying a 500W PSU 85+ rated instead of 600W. Brilliant as the Z68MA-D2H is is out now and does what I needed, thanks! I haven't found any benchmarks to judge bandwidth, with 2133MHz RAM that should be equal to other high-end P67/Z67 mobos.


Question: Whilst on RAM, I am silly in assuming 4GB is enough for running only SMP -bigadv as 0.5GB RAM usage per core seems too high - other ocuk forum members have said they've been using around 2.5GB for folding? If I do need more than 4GB RAM, this means buying Win7x64 (or running Linux which I've never used) + another 4GB RAM. Is it possible to get away with using 4GB RAM for up to 50K PPD within the daily timeframe, correct me if I'm wrong?


Plenty have mentioned the AMD Bulldozer and I have seen the alleged screenshots (probably fake anyway) showing that example will faster than my [email protected] at calculating wPrime 32M by 2.1secs at 5.516s and 1024M of 166.895. CPU was clocked at 3.8GHz with 8 cores using the AMD FX 8110. Voltage was 1.396v. Like I said, probably fake. Although good for Folding if true, many tech sites (one example) have said the performance will match Intel's 2600K. I'm not biased which is why i've gave two examples, the latter sounds more realistic.

Thanks for the recent posts. Everyone's feedback is certainly helping. I am a lot closer than I was initially to understand the rig needed to help fold for a great cause

 

[FMTopfan]

I would advise going 64bit, because 32 bit versions of Windows are limited to 2 GB of virtual address space per each process, the f@h core is one process.

If its a dedicated machine there are also dedicated Linux boot images if you want to squeeze the maximum points out of it, or easy setup guides for Linux and bigadv.

Or for a 4-5K drop in PPD you can run Linux in a vmware player 3.0 environment.

Good points Biffa. In that case to save cash on the build without buying an OS I'd want to install Linux x64 (for Linux SMP as its a requirement, x86 not supported). It will be a dedi folding rig and I had a quick look for an Linux ISO but there are so many that I've no idea which is the best for the maximum points. Also, is this guide the one you used to set yours up correctly (it looks foreign to me)?

As I've now decided to be a proper folder and run a Linux OS install, will it utilise the RAM better than Windows meaning I can get away with buying 4GB RAM?

Thanks

Edit: As previously mentioned, I've been running F@H SMP the past fortnight 9 hours a day (no bigadv line) on Win7x64 to gauge how well my current [email protected] (CPU temp: 65c @1.36vcore, room temp: 24c) manages in sig. This is the log - looks really fast at 4 hours!

12:13:44:Unit 01:Completed 5000 out of 500000 steps  (1%)
12:16:10:Unit 01:Completed 10000 out of 500000 steps  (2%)
12:18:37:Unit 01:Completed 15000 out of 500000 steps  (3%)
12:21:05:Unit 01:Completed 20000 out of 500000 steps  (4%)
12:23:32:Unit 01:Completed 25000 out of 500000 steps  (5%)
12:25:58:Unit 01:Completed 30000 out of 500000 steps  (6%)
12:28:26:Unit 01:Completed 35000 out of 500000 steps  (7%)
12:30:53:Unit 01:Completed 40000 out of 500000 steps  (8%)
12:33:21:Unit 01:Completed 45000 out of 500000 steps  (9%)
12:35:48:Unit 01:Completed 50000 out of 500000 steps  (10%)
12:38:15:Unit 01:Completed 55000 out of 500000 steps  (11%)
12:40:42:Unit 01:Completed 60000 out of 500000 steps  (12%)
12:43:09:Unit 01:Completed 65000 out of 500000 steps  (13%)
12:45:36:Unit 01:Completed 70000 out of 500000 steps  (14%)
12:48:03:Unit 01:Completed 75000 out of 500000 steps  (15%)
12:50:30:Unit 01:Completed 80000 out of 500000 steps  (16%)
12:52:57:Unit 01:Completed 85000 out of 500000 steps  (17%)
12:55:25:Unit 01:Completed 90000 out of 500000 steps  (18%)
12:57:52:Unit 01:Completed 95000 out of 500000 steps  (19%)
13:00:19:Unit 01:Completed 100000 out of 500000 steps  (20%)
13:02:46:Unit 01:Completed 105000 out of 500000 steps  (21%)
13:05:13:Unit 01:Completed 110000 out of 500000 steps  (22%)
13:07:39:Unit 01:Completed 115000 out of 500000 steps  (23%)
13:10:07:Unit 01:Completed 120000 out of 500000 steps  (24%)
13:12:33:Unit 01:Completed 125000 out of 500000 steps  (25%)
13:14:59:Unit 01:Completed 130000 out of 500000 steps  (26%)
13:17:26:Unit 01:Completed 135000 out of 500000 steps  (27%)
13:19:52:Unit 01:Completed 140000 out of 500000 steps  (28%)
13:22:18:Unit 01:Completed 145000 out of 500000 steps  (29%)
13:24:44:Unit 01:Completed 150000 out of 500000 steps  (30%)
13:27:10:Unit 01:Completed 155000 out of 500000 steps  (31%)
13:29:35:Unit 01:Completed 160000 out of 500000 steps  (32%)
13:32:01:Unit 01:Completed 165000 out of 500000 steps  (33%)
13:34:27:Unit 01:Completed 170000 out of 500000 steps  (34%)
13:36:52:Unit 01:Completed 175000 out of 500000 steps  (35%)
13:39:18:Unit 01:Completed 180000 out of 500000 steps  (36%)
13:41:45:Unit 01:Completed 185000 out of 500000 steps  (37%)
13:44:10:Unit 01:Completed 190000 out of 500000 steps  (38%)
13:46:36:Unit 01:Completed 195000 out of 500000 steps  (39%)
13:49:01:Unit 01:Completed 200000 out of 500000 steps  (40%)
13:51:27:Unit 01:Completed 205000 out of 500000 steps  (41%)
13:53:53:Unit 01:Completed 210000 out of 500000 steps  (42%)
13:56:18:Unit 01:Completed 215000 out of 500000 steps  (43%)
13:58:44:Unit 01:Completed 220000 out of 500000 steps  (44%)
14:01:10:Unit 01:Completed 225000 out of 500000 steps  (45%)
14:03:36:Unit 01:Completed 230000 out of 500000 steps  (46%)
14:06:02:Unit 01:Completed 235000 out of 500000 steps  (47%)
14:08:29:Unit 01:Completed 240000 out of 500000 steps  (48%)
14:11:25:Unit 01:Completed 245000 out of 500000 steps  (49%)
14:13:51:Unit 01:Completed 250000 out of 500000 steps  (50%)
14:16:17:Unit 01:Completed 255000 out of 500000 steps  (51%)
14:18:43:Unit 01:Completed 260000 out of 500000 steps  (52%)
14:21:09:Unit 01:Completed 265000 out of 500000 steps  (53%)
14:23:35:Unit 01:Completed 270000 out of 500000 steps  (54%)
14:26:02:Unit 01:Completed 275000 out of 500000 steps  (55%)
14:28:28:Unit 01:Completed 280000 out of 500000 steps  (56%)
14:30:54:Unit 01:Completed 285000 out of 500000 steps  (57%)
14:33:21:Unit 01:Completed 290000 out of 500000 steps  (58%)
14:35:47:Unit 01:Completed 295000 out of 500000 steps  (59%)
14:38:13:Unit 01:Completed 300000 out of 500000 steps  (60%)
14:40:40:Unit 01:Completed 305000 out of 500000 steps  (61%)
14:43:06:Unit 01:Completed 310000 out of 500000 steps  (62%)
14:45:32:Unit 01:Completed 315000 out of 500000 steps  (63%)
14:47:58:Unit 01:Completed 320000 out of 500000 steps  (64%)
14:50:23:Unit 01:Completed 325000 out of 500000 steps  (65%)
14:52:49:Unit 01:Completed 330000 out of 500000 steps  (66%)
14:55:15:Unit 01:Completed 335000 out of 500000 steps  (67%)
14:57:42:Unit 01:Completed 340000 out of 500000 steps  (68%)
15:00:08:Unit 01:Completed 345000 out of 500000 steps  (69%)
15:02:34:Unit 01:Completed 350000 out of 500000 steps  (70%)
15:05:01:Unit 01:Completed 355000 out of 500000 steps  (71%)
15:07:27:Unit 01:Completed 360000 out of 500000 steps  (72%)
15:09:54:Unit 01:Completed 365000 out of 500000 steps  (73%)
15:12:20:Unit 01:Completed 370000 out of 500000 steps  (74%)
15:14:47:Unit 01:Completed 375000 out of 500000 steps  (75%)
15:17:13:Unit 01:Completed 380000 out of 500000 steps  (76%)
15:19:39:Unit 01:Completed 385000 out of 500000 steps  (77%)
15:22:04:Unit 01:Completed 390000 out of 500000 steps  (78%)
15:24:29:Unit 01:Completed 395000 out of 500000 steps  (79%)
15:26:55:Unit 01:Completed 400000 out of 500000 steps  (80%)
15:29:20:Unit 01:Completed 405000 out of 500000 steps  (81%)
15:31:45:Unit 01:Completed 410000 out of 500000 steps  (82%)
15:34:11:Unit 01:Completed 415000 out of 500000 steps  (83%)
15:36:37:Unit 01:Completed 420000 out of 500000 steps  (84%)
15:39:02:Unit 01:Completed 425000 out of 500000 steps  (85%)
15:41:27:Unit 01:Completed 430000 out of 500000 steps  (86%)
15:43:53:Unit 01:Completed 435000 out of 500000 steps  (87%)
15:46:18:Unit 01:Completed 440000 out of 500000 steps  (88%)
15:48:44:Unit 01:Completed 445000 out of 500000 steps  (89%)
15:51:09:Unit 01:Completed 450000 out of 500000 steps  (90%)
15:53:35:Unit 01:Completed 455000 out of 500000 steps  (91%)
15:56:00:Unit 01:Completed 460000 out of 500000 steps  (92%)
15:58:26:Unit 01:Completed 465000 out of 500000 steps  (93%)
16:00:52:Unit 01:Completed 470000 out of 500000 steps  (94%)
16:03:18:Unit 01:Completed 475000 out of 500000 steps  (95%)
16:05:45:Unit 01:Completed 480000 out of 500000 steps  (96%)
16:08:11:Unit 01:Completed 485000 out of 500000 steps  (97%)
16:10:39:Unit 01:Completed 490000 out of 500000 steps  (98%)
16:13:06:Unit 01:Completed 495000 out of 500000 steps  (99%)
....
Final credit estimate, 4850.00 points

 

[FMTopfan]

I can't believe my luck I was in the loft looking for a spare HDMI lead and found a quality/branded PSU still looking new in the box - totally forgot I had it. This SLi/CrossFire certified version came out in 2005 and it's meant to be nearly silent too. It's the ENERMAX Noisetaker EG701AX-VE SFMA(24P) 600W, 80% efficiency too. Note: It isn't as energy efficient as modern ATX12V v2.3 standards but I doubt there is too much difference when I keep this running full load, if it does consume too much power then I'll know with the excess heat.

According to the specs briefly (more info in this review):
- ATX12V v2.01 standard (Intel-Approved but for the old P4/AMD 64) with adjustable fan speeds (Dual, Smart Fans)
- Protection from over-current, over-voltage, over-load, over-temperature, under-voltage and short circuits. Active PFC function.
- Dimensions (fits Micro ATX case) - 150mm (W) x 86mm (H) x 140mm (L).

 

[FMTopfan]

A mate was running folding on a Sata-II HDD and replaced this with a SSD (new install) and he seen his folding rate improve from 4mins per percentage fold to 2.7mins. Is this improvement typical with folding? If so then how does disk speed effect folding?