Build your own Hazro 27WC

PoliticallyCorrect

PoliticallyCorrect

PoliticallyCorrect

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2 Jul 2005
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522
Hi,

Like many people on here I would like to buy the Hazro HZ27WC but I am very skeptical of their quality control on the glass version, and in general.

I have tracked down the panel model as LM270WQ1 by LG.Philips. It is the same as the one used in the Apple Thunderbolt Display, the difference in brightness rating is due to manufacture spec vs real world tests (both come out the same).

For info, LM270WQ2 is the panel used in the "10bit" (8bit + dithering) version of the Hazro Monitor, which is also the same panel used in the Dell 2711.

I don't think I am breaking any rules by stating that many places are selling these panels wholesale. They work out around $350 a piece but usually require a minimum of 5 to be purchased. Despite the saving, usually I wouldn't show any more interest at this point due to it not being in a working state but then I spotted one of the suppliers was showing a picture of the panel powered up and working without any extra circuitry. It also states in the specification that the panel itself comes with a DisplayPort interface! This could make it incredibly easy to build your own version of the Hazro Display.

I thought this might be of interest for anyone who has experience in metal work and casing. Heck, if Hazro are doing exactly that in a small workshop i'm sure anyone can. I mean look how flimsy the stand is on the Hazro monitor!!!

-Jonathan
 
I think you're grossly underestimating exactly what is involved. The Dell u2711 doesn't use the exact same panel btw, iirc it has a -2 postfix.
Also very much doubt that it will run from display port without any additionally circuitry. The circuitry (if it's anything like with that for laptop screens) is another $70, backlight which I'm guessing isn't included with the screen is another few bucks. Housing is probably going to cost you well over $200 (for a single or very limited number aluminum is probably cheaper than plastic). Power brick ~+$20.

Short version: I think there is a good reason why you're the first the think of this ;)
 
To make 5 I would guess (and it's just a guess) that they would cost 10's of thousands each to build due to the setup costs at tooling required.
 
Just like Hazro then? To be honest, thousands of laptops are made every day without dust behind the screen... do you really think they are using the correct tools for the job that cost 10k to setup?

For info, the panel includes the backlight. Search for "LM270WQ1-SDA2_LG.pdf" and you will find the exact pin out's. What you will find interesting is the panel even includes an SPDIF digital output (to break out the audio from the DisplayPort) which is what Hazro must be feeding off for their speakers.

Whilst I might have been over-optimistic about the whole idea, I really don't think it's as bad as you two guys make it sound! :)

-Jonathan
 
Our primary business is custom displays - the quickest and cheapest way would be to use Displaylink controllers. USB3.0 versions are capable of supporting 2560x 1440/1600 but it needs development. ETA: around March. It will probably never be used by CE OEMs but for single application usage (e.g. digital signage), these will work fine. This has us excited because of features such as Power over USB3.0 etc. (meaning a single SMPS for the panel alone will suffice and the controller could be powered sepereately). Throw into that Cat5/6 to USB extenders and even 'wireless' USB data transmission etc....you get the idea.

A 10.1" kit (Panel + Controller) for e.g. POS or Retail Signage applications costs <£100. See image below.

image002wa.png


The same ft. an iPAD 9.7" panel would cost the same (but no market as LCD modding isn't big business in Europe/USA). Not too sure why as PC case modding is huge business and those, more often than not, sit underneath desks!

A 27" or 30" complete kit would cost.....for now, your better off stripping a retail monitor!

A triple monitor setup as shown in the link above is fairly easy to achieve as a DIY project. We do offer controllers etc. and will begin consumarizing these in a few weeks (via our website). Enclosures/casing etc. isn't a problem: the stand can be a nightmare with all the intricate parts.

There is native support for DP in many LG panels but its not widely adopted due to compatibility issues. As an example, read the reviews on miniDP>DL DVI adapters: we feel for our competitors that have launched these not knowing the interface and standard is buggy. The LM240WU6 panel was adopted by Apple only: nobody else could get it to work. We can resolve issues with e.g. ATi 4XXX series cards and a simple firmware upgrade ends up corrupting the EDID. This is why bypass controllers are made by us which do nothing but get an image on the screen.

Just in case image hasn't appeared:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/image002wa.png/
 
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Thanks Hazro user, was an interesting insight. Although I reckon issues would be less likely if I were to plug the native DisplayPort into a MacBook?

Maybe my best of luck would be strip apart the enclosure of a faulty 27" monitor and use that.

Don't get me wrong, I think Hazro are doing a good service by delivering this panel, in a working state, at half the price Apple do.

But do you reckon your manufacturing process would be of a higher standard in the near future? I think if you could get past the glass problem, improve the stand, meet demand and improve availability beyond OCUK, a lot of people would buy this monitor.

-Jonathan
 
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Slenpree said:
Just like Hazro then? To be honest, thousands of laptops are made every day without dust behind the screen... do you really think they are using the correct tools for the job that cost 10k to setup?
Click to expand...

For sure, to make a few monitors the set up costs will be horrendous it's all about volume.
 
Slenpree said:
if you could get past the glass problem, improve the stand, meet demand and improve availability beyond OCUK, a lot of people would buy this monitor.
Click to expand...

The glass has been a nightmare and feedback is mixed. Some prefer it, others don't. A few specs of dust isn't a problem in some territories but the reaction here is different. Dust is clearly a relative issue so its all about ensuring the correct product ends up in the right market. And then there's the economics: For a £100 more, we can easily resolve the dust issues by sending our batches to Hyundai Electric and have them assemble in their clean rooms (same as Dell) - but would anybody pay +£500 for a bypass 27" LED display? Resellers wouldn't show interest and only a direct marketing model would work (such as Dell/Apple). The HZ27 models are supposed to be low cost models and we stand by with what we've been saying from the beginning: its a lot of monitor for the money.

Back to economics: the stand is a major expense - more so than the cost of developing the controller and enclosure combined. This is why Dell/Apple don't change their stand IDs. The per unit price would have increased by £50 if an adjustable stand was offered. With the product already delayed by 10 months, we had to go to market. However, a new stand is imminent: a universal VESA 100x100 stand capable of supporting heavier monitors including all Apple displays (without the need for an adapter). Many vendors claim their stands can support +10kg but at that weight, they wouldn't pass VESA standards. We are set to change that.

We cannot meet demand and have a backlog of orders. Many pre-ordered their units via our site and ended up waiting 1 month AFTER the specified delivery date. Panel shortages, product schedules etc. all combine to create a nightmare situation for us which is why we've had to drop several models. This model, despite flaws outlined by some in these forums, is hugely popular and sadly, the nature of forums means we never get to hear the positive posts. We suspect a dry-out period throughout Q2 but late summer looks promising and no doubt, the unit price will drop to <£350 inc. VAT.

As for other resellers, we do get many enquiries but all the above about us not being able to meet demand applies. Its easier for us to sell through the channel i.e. dump stock to a disti and have resellers approach them but for us to supply 5k units per month is, right now, impossible.
 
Thanks for the reply again, it was an interesting read.

Whilst I see where you are coming from when you say "you get a lot of monitor for the money", what you have discredited is that people spending this region of money are expecting a product that isn't faulty. Or a better way of putting it - when buying new, people expect a monitor without faults - whatever the cost. Otherwise the buyer would be better off with a second hand Apple Thunderbolt Display, which would cost roughly the same.

Selling on mass at lower standards, and therefore adjusting average consumer expectations is ... how would you put it... "monopolising".

-Jonathan
 
Slenpree said:
Otherwise the buyer would be better off with a second hand Apple Thunderbolt Display
Click to expand...

I noticed you've drawn that comparison a few times. I think a better comparison is with the Apple LED Cinema Display as the Thunderbolt Display is restricted entirely to a Thunderbolt connection to a Mac and no way of connecting to a PC. One key area for many people is that there is no OSD on those displays and you need to connect to a Mac or use a convoluted process to even adjust the brightness. Furthermore the Apple models are not overdriven, unlike the Hazro, which makes them relatively lacklustre when gaming. I have an ACD so I know these limitations all too well.
 
Slenpree said:
I think if you could get past the glass problem, improve the stand, meet demand and improve availability beyond OCUK, a lot of people would buy this monitor.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are buying the monitor and the vast majority are very happy with the purchase (me included). The "glass problem" has been solved by removing the glass and discontinuing the glass line (as already outlined in the main hazro thread).

I'm curious on what are you basing these assumptions on? How many faulty Hazro's have you owned?
 
I wouldn't consider discontinuation of a faulty product as an effective way of "solving a problem" for hundreds who have already purchased the monitor and were not as lucky as you were.

My assumptions are coming from the main hazro thread, and as such I own 0 hazro monitors. I don't think any individual can make the assertion of quality and only a poll would expose the real fault rate of these monitors.

-Jonathan
 
As Xeanor said for someone wanting a custom - probably multi panel setup - and the expertise/experience to put it together quite useful but for the average person not really practical.
 
Wouldn't it be nice tho to make the perfect monitor (or TV) to meet your needs.

Given how often we're all saying "the perfect monitor doesn't exist", and that even with modest requirements we end up compromising, it's almost surprising that there aren't more companies making custom TFTs.
 
iirc it would be possible to create a sort of oled paint which would form the needed connections on its own. To be honest, that's the first thing I ever heard related to oled displays...

Until that hits the market you most likely need to be a superstar or oil baron for it to be affordable. Panels are a fixed size and fixed resolution, so that's why no company does that ;)
If your name is Bill Gates I'm sure Hazro or some other company would be happy to talk to you though.
 
I wasn't talking about creating a new panel :p Such things are well beyond only a handful of companies. You need your own fabrication plants for that! Billion-dollar facilities.

But you don't have to be super, super-rich to build your own monitor around a panel, with the features you want.

Granted for most of us it's not worth the time or expense, but there's no reason you couldn't build your own custom monitor if you fancied. The time investment would put me off more than anything...
 
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