Building prisons in other countries

wolfie138 · 8 Mar 2018 at 13:56

and why do we have to go to the expense of building a prison in a different country for residents of that country? why do we not just ship them back?

memyselfandi · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:10

****** foreign criminals ... coming over here and stealing work from our home grown ones ...

Actually, can we just ship any of our convicted criminals over there ... seemed to work out all right in the end for places like Australia ...

Roar87 · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:15

Came in expecting new expansion for Prison Architect

FortuitousFluke · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:23

Average cost of 1 year of incarceration in a cat B prison is £25k, £25k x 112 = 2.8mil p/a and we're talking prisoners serving 4+ years so that's over £10mil just taking into account the first cohort (we probably won't use all of the prison but even if we ship over 10 people we're into net savings over 4 years). Seems to me if it removes the barrier to deporting Nigerian criminals it may be a win win, we probably won't utilise all of the beds and the Nigerians can maybe use this as a pilot to develop best practice in their prison system.

Best case scenario obviously but who knows, it might work.

Dis86 · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:24

Firestar_3x said:
Human rights problems, apparently transferring a prisoner to serve the rest of his sentence surrounded by piles of poo is unacceptable.

I'm sorry, I don't see where the problem is with that? If you don't want to go back to your craphole country don't come here and commit a crime. Simple

FortuitousFluke · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:25

Dis86 said:
I'm sorry, I don't see where the problem is with that? If you don't want to go back to your craphole country don't come here and commit a crime. Simple

The European Court of Human Rights disagrees, hence the need to compromise.

Firestar_3x · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:26

Dis86 said:
I'm sorry, I don't see where the problem is with that? If you don't want to go back to your craphole country don't come here and commit a crime. Simple

Apparently even though you may have killed someone you still have the same basic rights as everyone else (for some reason).

Dis86 · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:34

FortuitousFluke said:
The European Court of Human Rights disagrees, hence the need to compromise.

Surely if they're that concerned they should be ensuring that countries have prisons that are up to code?

FortuitousFluke · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:41

Dis86 said:
Surely if they're that concerned they should be ensuring that countries have prisons that are up to code?

I'm not sure the ECHR has much jurisdiction in Africa.

Kutter · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:43

now we just need to build some in pakistan and all the other 3rd world countries.

Dis86 · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:46

FortuitousFluke said:
I'm not sure the ECHR has much jurisdiction in Africa.

I'm not sure that we need to pay them any heed either.

FortuitousFluke · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:51

Dis86 said:
I'm not sure that we need to pay them any heed either.

We signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights, so for the time being at least, yes we do. And come B-Day we'll pretty much absorb the selfsame legislation into our own legal framework so we'll still end up abiding by it.

These laws weren't forced on us, we are willing partners.

aardvark · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:52

came here for the proteins, left due to prisons

ubersonic · 8 Mar 2018 at 14:53

FortuitousFluke said:
I'm not sure the ECHR has much jurisdiction in Africa.

But they do here, so we can't send them to Africa.

FortuitousFluke · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:00

ubersonic said:
But they do here, so we can't send them to Africa.

Precisely, that was the point I was making. Dis was suggesting the ECHR should, if they cared about the wellbeing of deportees, take up the issue with the Country they're being deported to, which falls well outside their jurisdiction in most cases.

Firestar_3x · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:04

FortuitousFluke said:
Precisely, that was the point I was making. Dis was suggesting the ECHR should, if they cared about the wellbeing of deportees, take up the issue with the Country they're being deported to, which falls well outside their jurisdiction in most cases.

Unfortunately it is our responsibility to ensure the standard to which the prisoners will be kept is acceptable once deported, it is the same reason we have had problems deporting some hate preachers and such.

ubersonic · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:05

Kinda sucks, but it's our own rules biting us, and they have saved a great number of British citizens from suffering so overall a good system.

FortuitousFluke · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:07

Firestar_3x said:
Unfortunately it is our responsibility to ensure the standard to which the prisoners will be kept is acceptable once deported, it is the same reason we have had problems deporting some hate preachers and such.

I know, I was trying to explain that to somebody else. I'm aware of our responsibilities in terms of deportation, and I agree with them, I also quite like the concept of assisting with developing new prisons as a way to get assurance in terms of levels of treatment.

ubersonic · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:10

A better solution would simply be to amend the rules so that if a foreign national commits a crime they can be imprisoned in their own country in a prison meeting the standards laid out by their own country...

Obviously this would result in a system where the rights of non-EU nationals are protected to a lesser extend than EU citizens, but tbh I'm fine with that as we shouldn't have to cover the cost of second rate countries producing second rate humans who commit crimes in our country because they don't know any better. If they're not fit to live here then send them back, they messed up their chance, it's on them if they have to go back to Strong Badia and live in a run down prison.

Firestar_3x · 8 Mar 2018 at 15:12

FortuitousFluke said:
I know, I was trying to explain that to somebody else. I'm aware of our responsibilities in terms of deportation, and I agree with them, I also quite like the concept of assisting with developing new prisons as a way to get assurance in terms of levels of treatment.

The problem is we seem to struggle to run prisons on our own soil, build one in a 3rd world country and stick in a rather lackadaisical workforce and you have the recipe for something which may come and bite us in the future.