C1 Driving Test

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Double damn!

Just been notified if I pass my Paramedic interview I need to pass my C1 for me to be able to start the course, they do offer it for free but wondering what it all entails these days as it's been over 9 years since I last took a driving test :o
 
I don't know what the test is like as I already have that entitlement on my licence. It will probably involve learning about a Tachograph, being able to drive a truck up to 7.5T on the road safely, and doing some manoeuvres.
 
You will be taught to drive a large transit style van that weighs over 3.5T iirc.

As far as I am aware, you won't require any Tachograph training as it is not mandatory for the license and I believe Ambulances are exempt from Tachograph regulations anyway.

If you have been driving for 9 years, I think you may find the entitlement is already there mate, look on the back of your photo card license.

If it just says "B" then you have no form of Heavy Goods entitlement. (which is what category C is)

meetbrum9.jpg

Mines the license on the right (pic taken at a meet ages ago) the other two license holders passed way after I did hence the entitlement not being there.

I can't recall when the law changed though, 9 years may not cover it..... :o
 
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Ah yes you're right they are exempt. Anyway most new vehicles use digi tachos now which are pretty cool. Yeah it has to be over 3.5T (for C1) and under 7.5T. It's shouldn't be too tough, just be aware of your width, and turning (that you don't cut the corner or vehicles on the inside) and reversing you just have to be aware of your length if you haven't got a reversing camera.
 

Not the 9 o'Clock News > Carrott. ;):D - Nice clip though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozVxiQcqFQ8

Ah yes you're right they are exempt. Anyway most new vehicles use digi tachos now which are pretty cool. Yeah it has to be over 3.5T (for C1) and under 7.5T. It's shouldn't be too tough, just be aware of your width, and turning (that you don't cut the corner or vehicles on the inside) and reversing you just have to be aware of your length if you haven't got a reversing camera.

Iirc, using reversing cameras = A Test Fail - You have to use mirrors.

Digi Tacho's are not cool, they are a piece of beta software in an equally beta piece of kit, don't start me off on them they are a thread in their own right!
 
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The auto C1 entitlement ended Jan 1997 so I was a good 18 months too late sadly after passing.

I have already taken a Ambulance based test in Ambulance which I passed no problem, but sadly that's just to see if their happy in letting me advance forward to take the test etc.

I'm assuming it will just be the same as a road test but in a van? Wonder if I have to take another theory too :(
 
That's a bit unfair! Reversing cameras are great if you don't have a banksman! I guess you can use "touch" :D

Anyway I think we've covered all the requirements, reversing, over 3.5T, width/length understanding, driving a big van on the roads with other road users, observation and manoeuvring skills with the extra sized vehicle. I doubt you'll have to do a theory. As you say it's likely to just do a test "on the road" incorporating manoeuvres that are a bit trickier with a bigger vehicle.

Have you struggled with your digi tachos? I guess they're a bit "love 'em or hate 'em". They seem to work pretty well for us, it also means that there are a lot less tacho infringements and/or damaged scuffed tachos!
 
Have you struggled with your digi tachos? I guess they're a bit "love 'em or hate 'em". They seem to work pretty well for us, it also means that there are a lot less tacho infringements and/or damaged scuffed tachos!

Suffered quite a bit mate.

In a nutshell, a digital tacho carries on recording driving time after you have actually stopped, meaning on multi drop work for example, over a day you lose anything upto half an hour driving time when compared with an analogue equipped vehicle (we carried out this "test" whilst I worked for DHL)

Also, they regard Periods of Avalability (POA) the same as Breaks meaning, if you drive for an hour, wait around on POA for 3.5 hours then try to drive off again,the tacho thinks you have actually had a break and can drive for 4.5 hours when infact, you have not and only have 3.5 hours left to drive....

The print out rolls are expensive for what they are and constantly jam.

I am on my 3rd Digital Tacho card as to quote the DVLA "They do not like being in wallets" and keep developing faults on the card's chip.

Funny that, all of the other cards in my wallet have identical chips yet they all work fine!

I certainly prefer a digi tacho compared to having to carry charts with me, but feel the system was introduced way too early with too many bugs.

With my current employers, I'd rather drive an older truck without a digi if I'm doing a run to London & back as I know I can do it within my allocated time, try the same trip in a digi equipped truck and I often return with "exceeded hours" even though my own in-cab stop watch tells me quite the opposite.
 
I'm surprised about the POA - surely that can't be right?!

I can see why for a professional driver that would get on your nerves - it seems to work out quite well from a management point of view as it's easier to keep track of things, but yes if they're not working properly and don't like to be carried in wallets that's a bit crap. I guess the technology can only get better - well I have to say they seem to be working well for us, and in essence they are a pretty good bit of kit.
 
Just managed to get a hold of someone who just did theirs and it does in fact need a theory test as well. Now too try and get a provisional for C1 asap and then probably have to get some £££ lessons in and try and pass asap as I believe the course is end of Feb :(

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Oh and a D4 medical report form that will need the doc to sign !
 
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Crikey - but I guess C1 and above tends to be used for professional drivers so they have to be a bit more stringent. You'll be fine mate - the theory test is easy. :)
 
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I'm surprised about the POA - surely that can't be right?!

I can see why for a professional driver that would get on your nerves - it seems to work out quite well from a management point of view as it's easier to keep track of things, but yes if they're not working properly and don't like to be carried in wallets that's a bit crap. I guess the technology can only get better - well I have to say they seem to be working well for us, and in essence they are a pretty good bit of kit.

As in the eyes of the system POA is equivalent to a valid break then this is identified as a break in the system (and on the printout) and therefore under these circumstances the driver cannot rely on the digital tachograph to warn of the impending expiry of driving times effectively.

I'd hazzard a guess the majority of your drivers would not even be aware of this - I was not somebody had to point it out to me.

Ask your drivers, I'd be interested to hear of their experiences, I'm not just talking of my own experience of POA & Digi's its a common rant with us drivers when were sitting in "Drivers Waiting Areas" waiting for paperwork etc, seems to be common across the board.

I assume VOSA are aware of this issue, a while back I was stopped for a check and had to get my card downloaded for the VOSA bod, he was happy that I had no infringements yet I'd already had a few issues of my tacho telling me I'd exceeded hours due to the POA issue.

I assume he read the printout and worked out for himself the the infringements listed were not in fact "real". :confused:


Crikey - but I guess C1 and above tends to be used for professional drivers so they have to be a bit more stringent.

Thats exactly it. - I think the authorities got a bit tired of car drivers crashing 7.5tonners after very quickly realizing that they are nothing like cars to drive! - despite car license holders having the qualification under the old system.
 
Yeah I'll ask them, it'll be interesting to see. They only ever change their mode to rest, the rest of the time they are either driving or stopped for delivery/service or whatever. I think you're right VOSA must know that all new o-licence vehicles will be used during POA and not count as a break - it's ridiculous otherwise. I really hadn't thought of that.. Actually I've just had a look at the vdo printout, and it seems yes they seem to be driving for a bit, then on POA then driving etc... I can't imagine why they'd treat POA as a break the whole point of POA is exactly the opposite really... well from my understanding of it!

Having driven a 7.5T truck I agree, it should be more stringent, it's not just like driving a car, there's a lot more to take into consideration.
 
Yeah I'll ask them, it'll be interesting to see. They only ever change their mode to rest, the rest of the time they are either driving or stopped for delivery/service or whatever. I think you're right VOSA must know that all new o-licence vehicles will be used during POA and not count as a break - it's ridiculous otherwise. I really hadn't thought of that.. Actually I've just had a look at the vdo printout, and it seems yes they seem to be driving for a bit, then on POA then driving etc... I can't imagine why they'd treat POA as a break the whole point of POA is exactly the opposite really... well from my understanding of it!

Having driven a 7.5T truck I agree, it should be more stringent, it's not just like driving a car, there's a lot more to take into consideration.

I'd advise them to be VERY careful with POA as its use is quite specific.
Generally speaking a period of availability (PoA) is waiting time, the duration of which is known about in advance by the mobile worker. Under the Regulations, these periods have to meet the following criteria:

* a mobile worker should not be required to remain at his workstation;
* (but) he must be available to answer calls to start work or resume driving on request; and
* the period and the foreseeable duration should be known in advance, by the mobile worker, either before departure or just before the start of the period in question.

Examples of a PoA include the time when accompanying a vehicle being transported by boat or train; or time spent waiting at frontiers; or delays due to traffic prohibitions. When driving as part of a team, when not driving, unless the mobile worker is taking a break or performing other work (e.g. navigation), a PoA also includes time spent sitting next to the driver while the vehicle is in motion. Other travelling staff may also count travelling time as a PoA, provided they are not performing any other work.

Like breaks and rest periods, a PoA can be taken at the workstation. Providing the mobile worker has a reasonable amount of freedom (e.g. he can relax and read), for a known duration, this would satisfy the requirements for a PoA. Where the mobile worker knows about a delay in advance, but it is deemed prudent that the driver should remain in the cab for reasons of security or safety, this should not in itself, disqualify this delay being recorded as a PoA. Typical examples might include waiting at a site that is unsafe for pedestrians or staying in a vehicle carrying high value goods or cash.

Mobile workers do not need to be formally notified about a PoA and its duration in advance. It is enough that they know about it (and the foreseeable duration), in advance.

A PoA does not apply to delays where the mobile worker has to continue working. For example, where a driver is diverted due to a road closure, he/she would still be driving. Normally, delays due to congestion would also count as working time because the driver would be stopping and starting the vehicle. If a mobile worker is monitoring a discharge from the vehicle (e.g. petrol at filling station), this time will also count as working time.

There are no requirements as to the minimum and maximum length of a PoA.
Examples of a PoA:

* When a mobile worker experiences a delay at a regional distribution centre or depot, waiting for someone to load or unload their vehicle, if they know about the length of the delay at the start of the period (because someone has told them; because they have arrived too early for their slot; or because they always experience a delay at one of their regular customers).
* If a mobile worker typically experiences a 1 hour delay at one of their regular customers, then this would count as a PoA. However, if they were to unexpectedly experience a 2 hour delay, then the second hour would count as working time. Unless the mobile worker was notified, before the end of the first hour, that a further hours delay was expected, in which case the second hour would also count as a PoA.
* Where a mobile worker reports for work, is informed that they are not required to undertake any duties for a specified period (albeit, they need to remain on site to answer calls and be ready to take up work), but is free to wait in the canteen or rest facility.
* If the vehicle breaks down and the mobile worker is told how long it will take to be rescued.
* Unless doing some other work (e.g. navigating), a relief driver who is travelling as a passenger would count this time as a period of availability. This time (or a part of it) could also be counted as a break - but would need to be recorded as such.
* Traffic prohibitions that would count as a PoA include, for example, where the police have delayed the movement of an abnormal load for a set period of time, or where vehicles are banned from city centres during specified hours, and the driver has to park the vehicle and wait.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/workingtime/rdtransportworkingtimeguidance?page=4 - Source.

As you can see, POA can only be used when the driver knows of the wait in advance e.g. arriving at a customers at 12 noon knowing they are closed for lunch until 13:00 that would be bona fide POA - many drivers simply use it as a way of keeping actual worked hours down (as you subtract POA & Breaks from your weekly hours total) which given the 48hour working rule, can be quite a good way of bending the rules, trouble is VOSA are wise to it as I know of a fair few drivers already caught out using it incorrectly.

I await the result of your enquiries with interest mate! :)
 
It's a tricky one with a lot of grey isn't it? The problem for the non HGV drivers that are still driving C1 vehicles is that they are constantly "on duty" and "working" even when not driving. So even if they only drive say 40 miles in a day, they'll be working for maybe 8-9hrs constantly doing other duties but still "working".

The HGV drivers have no issues since they are trunking vehicles and behave and perform just like any other HGV on the road.
 
It's a tricky one with a lot of grey isn't it? The problem for the non HGV drivers that are still driving C1 vehicles is that they are constantly "on duty" and "working" even when not driving. So even if they only drive say 40 miles in a day, they'll be working for maybe 8-9hrs constantly doing other duties but still "working".

The HGV drivers have no issues since they are trunking vehicles and behave and perform just like any other HGV on the road.
Indeed a tricky one.

Sounds like as long as the C1 drivers book a 45minute break half way through the day they won't have many problems. - If they don't book the break (lunch hour for example) on the tacho, they are illegal.

On trunking work, POA could be booked whilst a trailer is being loaded for example as long as the loader tells the driver how long the loading should take (so its known in advance) and as long as the driver does not assist with loading.
Otherwise, I imagine they leave the tacho on "other work" (cross hammers).

More Grey than John Major. :D
 
Indeed! Tbh I think VOSA would have to be stupidly pedantic to pick anything in our operation, yeah there might be a little bit of infringing here and there, but nothing blatant. The C1 drivers do have a 45min break after they do their "morning" work, so they're ok. They only ever change their mode to rest from work, I don't think they ever bother specifically putting it into POA. The HGVs are all quite professional so we never really have issues with them, except for the occasional person that forgets to change his mode :mad: Though I did that myself once, I drove all day on "rest" :o
 
Indeed! Tbh I think VOSA would have to be stupidly pedantic to pick anything in our operation, yeah there might be a little bit of infringing here and there, but nothing blatant. The C1 drivers do have a 45min break after they do their "morning" work, so they're ok. They only ever change their mode to rest from work, I don't think they ever bother specifically putting it into POA. The HGVs are all quite professional so we never really have issues with them, except for the occasional person that forgets to change his mode :mad: Though I did that myself once, I drove all day on "rest" :o

I often end up driving all day on rest. I usually drive class2 or c1e or whatever it's called now but occaisonally end up in a 7.5tonner. The daf ones have the tacho just next to your right knee so you cant see what mode it is in and i have often stopped for my 45 minutes only to see the bed blinking at me and hoping mr vosa doesn't spot me on that day. I have been queried over it once by a vosa guy but i just told him i had it set wrong he could clearly see a 45min break so he was cool about it but he culd have easily got the hump. Whilst we are here i got the shock of my life last month when i took a 7.5tonner out. Bloody speed limiter no one told me it was only when my overtake manuver went **** up as i gorund to 56mph halt looked a right muppet. Then after 3 days in it someone says "Don't forget your not allowed in the outside lane anymore" Doh.


We should have an HGV section of the overclockers club:D


The 7.5 tonne test is the same as the one you do for class 1 and class 2 pass basic theory exam with hazard perception (piece of urine) then reversing into a bay in the dvla yard, brake test and a 45 minute on the road exam. It's not that hard but you are allowed 15 minor faults bear in mind that a minor fault is missing a mirror when you change your vehicle speed and you can fail hard. A major fault is an instant fail, these include clipping a curb with your wheels, speeding or dangerous driving etc.

Best of luck
 
I often end up driving all day on rest. I usually drive class2 or c1e or whatever it's called now but occaisonally end up in a 7.5tonner.
That is illegal and your VERY lucky you have not been done for it either at the roadside or, after when your charts are checked.

Then after 3 days in it someone says "Don't forget your not allowed in the outside lane anymore" Doh.
Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of most Traffic Cops.


We should have an HGV section of the overclockers club:D
Yes, should be a sub-section of motors - The UK is crying out for a decent HGV forum, this could be the start of something good.

Well Dons?
:)
 
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