Calibration questions

So all in all, you'd recommend the i1 D2 with LED displays regardless?

I did go looking for it, and noticed that since it's discontinued and drying up, it's getting fairly expensive, with the newer i1D3 being the same price or even cheaper at a lot of places, and wondered if I should just grab the D3 instead. Although, the software thing IS a big problem... Stupid bean counters.

When I researched this a while ago it was all clear to me, now it's just turned my brain into mush again.
 
You should be able to get the i1 D2 from various places and I think it would be a better option right now given the software limitations of the i1 D3 and the fact its not really been even verified if it helps with this LED / wide gamut issue anyway

And yes, fine for most users anyway. It's something some people like to moan about because they think it matters when in reality if you look at it, it just doesn't create a problem unless like I say, you're matching many devices of different backlight types etc in which case it could be a problem.
 
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Ps and yes, this can start getting into all kinds of discussion about inter instrument agreements, ageing of filters etc. All valid points and again an issue in some circumstances. However for a single user wanting decent results from one screen, it is fine. For what it's worth from my experience with various different i1 D's of various brands, I have found them to be very good and far better than several spyder3 devices which seem to vary massively! The customised versions of the i1 D2 do tend to be a little more accurate (when testing against a reasonable reference) than an off the shelf version. The NEC customised device for example is very good from what i've seen.
 
Baddass said:
You should be able to get the i1 D2 from various places and I think it would be a better option right now given the software limitations of the i1 D3 and the fact its not really been even verified if it helps with this LED / wide gamut issue anyway

And yes, fine for most users anyway. It's something some people like to moan about because they think it matters when in reality if you look at it, it just doesn't create a problem unless like I say, you're matching many devices of different backlight types etc in which case it could be a problem.
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Ah, fair enough. One thing though: I've heard the filters of those older models start to fail after a long time. Wouldn't buying one now be problematic?

Well, for a while I will be running the Hazro + two Dell's which use CCFL, but i plan to sell them and use the money for a second Hazro, so it's no problem really.

Edit: Beaten to the punch. I like. :p

K, so buy the i1D2 for now, be happyface, and use software to correct the white point. Then in time if the software improves/limit removed on the other model, use the rebate offer and get that one in, IF it proves far better?
 
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When you say the white point measurement was slightly off do you mean the cd/m2 value? I know the accepted reference to work for is 120cd/m2 but on my Hazro I've always preferred the feel of around 95-100, at 120 the white test on Lagom has been ever so slightly brighter on the last block but at 95 it's easily there and not overbearing on my eyes.

I always read that this should really be set around 120, not exactly at because this value doesn't really affect the actual profiling results (colour temp mainly) and from my own calibrating on this screen over the years I certainly found this to be the case as delta-e average and max have remained consistent after each calibration compared to the uncalibrated report.

Oh and LC155, the rebate is only valid until the end of Sept 2011 :p It saves you £18 on the ColorMunki but I'm sure you could sell the i1D2 for what the Munki will cost anyway as it carries a high reputation.
 
mrk said:
When you say the white point measurement was slightly off do you mean the cd/m2 value? I know the accepted reference to work for is 120cd/m2 but on my Hazro I've always preferred the feel of around 95-100, at 120 the white test on Lagom has been ever so slightly brighter on the last block but at 95 it's easily there and not overbearing on my eyes.

I always read that this should really be set around 120, not exactly at because this value doesn't really affect the actual profiling results (colour temp mainly) and from my own calibrating on this screen over the years I certainly found this to be the case as delta-e average and max have remained consistent after each calibration compared to the uncalibrated report.

Oh and LC155, the rebate is only valid until the end of Sept 2011 :p It saves you £18 on the ColorMunki but I'm sure you could sell the i1D2 for what the Munki will cost anyway as it carries a high reputation.
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Oh yeah, forgot about that. :p

Well, I guess my mind is made up. You can send me that software link now if you want. :p

Edit: Oh yeah, is your Hazro an LED too?
 
No, no Hazro screen is LED, newer ones are LED backlit though :)

Mine is from the all aluminium era, one of the the first Hazro screen to be made though and was a beta kind of upgrade from the original that myself and some others from here were testing at the time!
 
mrk said:
No, no Hazro screen is LED, newer ones are LED backlit though :)

Mine is from the all aluminium era, one of the the first Hazro screen to be made though and was a beta kind of upgrade from the original that myself and some others from here were testing at the time!
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Ah, I see.

As a matter of interest, did you ever get around to having a look at that LED one you had?
 
yes, it's currently updating to SP1 (Win7), I then have Updates to install and then calibration :p
 
http://robbiekhan.co.uk/root/temp/ledLCDcal/

Out of the box it was as expected, terrible to a colorimeter :p Calibrated though it was just fine and brought up some good results.

ALSO, I noticed in the latest version of Blue Eye Pro that in the Drivers folder there is i1 Pro and Colormunki driver inf files so maybe BEP supports those....??
 
certainly supports i1 Pro (although you have to select "Blue Eye" from the menu). not tested it with Colormunki personally
 
mrk said:
When you say the white point measurement was slightly off do you mean the cd/m2 value? I know the accepted reference to work for is 120cd/m2 but on my Hazro I've always preferred the feel of around 95-100, at 120 the white test on Lagom has been ever so slightly brighter on the last block but at 95 it's easily there and not overbearing on my eyes.

I always read that this should really be set around 120, not exactly at because this value doesn't really affect the actual profiling results (colour temp mainly) and from my own calibrating on this screen over the years I certainly found this to be the case as delta-e average and max have remained consistent after each calibration compared to the uncalibrated report.
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no, sorry, by white point i am referring to colour temperature. i.e its quite normal to aim for a white point of 6500k in calibration, the colour of daylight. So that is the reading that will actually be typically 500 - 600k off when using a colorimeter without correction on an LED / wide gamut screen.

Like you say, changing the backlight intensity through the OSD brightness control should have no effect on the rest of the calibration, gamma, white point colour accuracy should all remain as they were. you are just lowering the luminance of the screen. the black point should also lower and so contrast ratio should also remain stable across the range
 
also a note about the DTP-94 as i see it's cropped up in the other discussion on hardforum :) that too has the same offset of white point, and in fact in some tests it was measured to be even higher than other colorimeters on certain backlight types

the reason some people recommend it though is that it was shown (in the same tests - by Quato by the way) to have a very good inter-instrument agreement so you should get a "good one" or have a good chance if buying multiple versions of getting similar results between them all. it still needs some form of correction for LED/Wide gamut, and this would normally be recommended through Quato's iColor Display software
 
Baddass said:
certainly supports i1 Pro (although you have to select "Blue Eye" from the menu). not tested it with Colormunki personally
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Wouldn't I have to buy OEM versions though seeing as the ones from X-rite are software locked?

Baddass said:
also a note about the DTP-94 as i see it's cropped up in the other discussion on hardforum :) that too has the same offset of white point, and in fact in some tests it was measured to be even higher than other colorimeters on certain backlight types

the reason some people recommend it though is that it was shown (in the same tests - by Quato by the way) to have a very good inter-instrument agreement so you should get a "good one" or have a good chance if buying multiple versions of getting similar results between them all. it still needs some form of correction for LED/Wide gamut, and this would normally be recommended through Quato's iColor Display software
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I remember reading that the Colormunki doesn't have as good a black level reading as the D2/DTP94 because of the type of meter it is. Is the i1 pro the same in this regard?

Thanks for the help, learning a lot here. :)
 
LC155 said:
Wouldn't I have to buy OEM versions though seeing as the ones from X-rite are software locked?
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as far as i know that only applies to the new i1 Display 3 colorimeter, the i1 Pro spectro is a bit older and as far as i know is not software locked to anything. I've used it fine with X-rite i1 Match, i1 Profiler, LaCie Blue Eye Pro, BasICColor, ColorEyes, iColor Display...


I remember reading that the Colormunki doesn't have as good a black level reading as the D2/DTP94 because of the type of meter it is. Is the i1 pro the same in this regard?

Thanks for the help, learning a lot here. :)
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The i1 Pro spectro has a lower limit of 0.20 cd/m2 for black level readings, which is quite high (ie not very dark) and so at lower end, and for measuring black depth of modern panels it is not very useful. An i1 D2 colorimeter can measure down to 0.02 cd/m2 which is fine for most modern screens. at some low brightness settings it can struggle with the very low black point of modern cPVA and AMVA panels though where it reaches <0.02 but thats rare
 
Baddass said:
as far as i know that only applies to the new i1 Display 3 colorimeter, the i1 Pro spectro is a bit older and as far as i know is not software locked to anything. I've used it fine with X-rite i1 Match, i1 Profiler, LaCie Blue Eye Pro, BasICColor, ColorEyes, iColor Display...




The i1 Pro spectro has a lower limit of 0.20 cd/m2 for black level readings, which is quite high (ie not very dark) and so at lower end, and for measuring black depth of modern panels it is not very useful. An i1 D2 colorimeter can measure down to 0.02 cd/m2 which is fine for most modern screens. at some low brightness settings it can struggle with the very low black point of modern cPVA and AMVA panels though where it reaches <0.02 but thats rare
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Oh right, you were talking about the i1 pro. Thought you meant the i1D3, was getting kind of excited there, when talking about the black level I was meaning the i1D3 too. Whoops. :o

As a matter of interest, what would you straight recommendation be, based on my setup?
 
sorry, confusing as it's called the i1 Display Pro (aka i1 Display 3) and the i1 Pro is the spectrophotometer device!

i cant find the defined spec but expect black point limit of the i1 D3 to be very similar to the i1 D2 (0.02 cd/m2 ish). spectro's have a higher limit of around 0.20 normally

what is your use specifically? price range you want to spend, your uses?
 
Baddass said:
sorry, confusing as it's called the i1 Display Pro (aka i1 Display 3) and the i1 Pro is the spectrophotometer device!

i cant find the defined spec but expect black point limit of the i1 D3 to be very similar to the i1 D2 (0.02 cd/m2 ish). spectro's have a higher limit of around 0.20 normally

what is your use specifically? price range you want to spend, your uses?
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I do use photoshop to design some things like sites, ect. Nothing extremely professional like touching up photos for clients, ect. Price range? Ehh... no more than £200 I'd say.

Just after something that'll give me an accurate calibration on my LED, and will REPORT what the results are (stupid x-rite).
 
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