Camera choice dilemma - 7D or 5D MkII

Logsi · 28 Oct 2011 at 22:57

I only commented on IS after you said it was better to have lens IS. I never said or implied that I bought the Sony due to inbuilt IS, it was a feature that the competition doesn't have bar a Pentax.

I have no need for any of those types of lenses you have asked about. I only need ones for photojournalism and portraiture.

Could you imagine using your current lenses with 3+ extra stops from Sensor IS? Why wouldn't you want that?

EDIT - I have a question for you. What do you think of the Nex 7?

Raymond Lin · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:08

Logsi said:
I only commented on IS after you said it was better to have lens IS. I never said or implied that I bought the Sony due to inbuilt IS, it was a feature that the competition doesn't have bar a Pentax.

I have no need for any of those types of lenses you have asked about. I only need ones for photojournalism and portraiture.

Could you imagine using your current lenses with 3+ extra stops from Sensor IS? Why wouldn't you want that?

You have no idea about the future.

If you had told me I will be shooting weddings 3 years ago I would have laughed at your face. In fact, about 5 years ago I had a conversation in the pub with a friend who actually tried to PUSH me into shooting weddings to make some "quick cash". He sees it easy money. Do you know what i told him?

"Don't be ****ing stupid"

I knew the lenses involved in it and I had no plans to get them.

Look at where i am now? I had no idea i would enjoy it, never mind I am actually good at it, even i didn't know i had it in me.

As for 3+ stop. It would be useless for me for what I need, I shoot people. IS does not stop action. Nothing beats aperture.

If I am shooting portraits then I have plenty of time anyway, they are posing, get the tripod out.

IS is no good if it can eliminate camera shake your subject moves. 1/20th, you can't freeze people at 1/20th. You can at 1/60th, but then at that shutter speed, using a 35/1.4. It should be sharp anyway.

Raymond Lin · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:11

As for the NEX 7.

I don't buy into these half SLR system either.

They are not small enough to chuck into your jeans, big enough that you need a bag...might as well carry my 5D with 1 lens.

Hence why I got a XZ-1.

Logsi · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:14

I think you missed my point entirely. I was saying why wouldn't you want that on top of F/2.8, not in replacement of it.

You're very lucky to be freezing motion at 1/60th too, 1/125th in my opinion is ideal for eliminating camera shake and motion. But that may be a habit from shooting with a Hasselblad and Mamiya C330s.

Raymond Lin · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:17

I didn't say i would't WANT it. I said I never needed it. Because I need to be shooting at a certain shutter speed to freeze people, IS is not a part of the equation.

Logsi · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:28

Well, ultimately ISO is more king for the shutter speed to freeze movement. So surely, for you, High ISO performance is the best asset for you over Aperture. Or is extremely low DOF your thing.

IS is great for video which is a reason why I want it. We want different things and that's the basis of our disagreements in this thread.

fozzybear · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:30

Raymond Lin said:
Sigh...brand snobbery?

All that after throwing the Carl Zeiss name around? My argument has been on RANGE and COSTS.

Both of which you have proven my point - No 24-70, and costing more in most cases.

....

I answered your questions honestly. I wasn't 'throwing' the name Carl Zeiss about. You're the one with an apparent obsession of putting Canon only lenses on Canon bodies and Sony only lenses on Sony bodies!

The simple facts are that there are lenses, (whether they're Sony, CZ, Tamron, Sigma or Minolta) to cover pretty much all ranges and for all kinds of price ranges.

Raymond Lin · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:31

IS is good for video, i noticed that on my XZ-1, it feels a little like steadycam. I do agree.

Raymond Lin · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:35

fozzybear said:
I answered your questions honestly. I wasn't 'throwing' the name Carl Zeiss about. You're the one with an apparent obsession of putting Canon only lenses on Canon bodies and Sony only lenses on Sony bodies!

The simple facts are that there are lenses, (whether they're Sony, CZ, Tamron, Sigma or Minolta) to cover pretty much all ranges and for all kinds of price ranges.

The gaps that Sigma and Tamron trying to cover?

24-70? The Canon or Nikon variant is better. That is not even an argument.
17-50 range? Same again, Sigma's 18-50 or Tamron vs Canon's 17-55 IS, or 16-35L or Nikon's 17-55VR. Canon and Nikon makes better lenses in this too.

Sigma and Tamron do make nice glass, but they are not in the same league as the actual brand for the camera maker itself. For 1 thing, 3rd party makers like Sigma need to reverse engineer all their lenses to suit. There is no guarantee that the next body you buy, the sigma lens you have in your bag will work with it.

fozzybear · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:37

Raymond Lin said:
A...

If you want a nice macro, 1:1. What does Sony has on offer? - Not too sure about Macro lenses. Never had the need for them.

What do they offer in terms of fisheye? - Sony 16mm f2.8 Fisheye.

What do they offer to cater for wildlife - 300mm and up? - Sony 70-400mm f4-5.6 G SSM. Sony 500 f4 on the way soon.

.....

But again, why the complete obsession of only mentioning Sony lenses for the Sony body? :confused:

Anyway, apologies to the OP for taking things WAY off topic.

Raymond Lin · 28 Oct 2011 at 23:43

fozzybear said:
But again, why the complete obsession of only mentioning Sony lenses for the Sony body?

I am taking the presumption that Sony/Carl Zeiss (btw, i am grouping them as 1) makes nice lenses.

If your argument is that they don't? But you can buy other 3rd party (Sigma/Tamron) lenses to fill the gap (which I have said, i.e. 24-70 not as good as Canon or Nikon), then what would be the reason to buy Sony apart from the body?

To buy into a brand, for me, it needs to have quality and choice. Are you saying that not only Sony doesn't have the choice in lenses, it doesn't even make nice lenses? That buying Sigma, Tamron would simply "do"?

Hunders · 31 Oct 2011 at 17:38

My 7D arrived today. Very chuffed with it, although I've not had a proper play yet! The 24-70L that I bought to pair up with it seems very nice, too.

There was a guy asking about whether or not I incurred any import tax on delivery. I can confirm that no import tax was asked for.

My only niggle about buying from abroad is that the manual is in Chinese. A URL for the English manual in PDF format is included though.

An Exception · 31 Oct 2011 at 18:10

^^^
Sometimes you receive the bill later in the post.
Although in your case the retailer should settle it.

FreeStream · 31 Oct 2011 at 19:07

fozzybear said:
I could make the argument about "Can you get a stabilized (through Sony's in body SSS) 70-200 f2.8 for Canon/Nikon for around £550?". There's plenty of advantages in the Sony system.

In all honesty mate, not a great argument when most people on here are on the 7D/5DII and up

IS is a nice feature, but not one I personally look for. No replacement for aperture!

Just had a look at the Alpha 77 and the ability to swap my 7D for it and my three lenses.

A quick look showed that:

Canon 10-22 F4-5.6 -> 11-18 F4-5.6: £567/£469, not a perfect replacement.
Canon 17-55 F2.8 -> Nothing available from Carl Zeiss, 3rd parties not as good as the Cnaon
Canon 70-200 F4L IS -> No replacement for it, just F2.8 lenses which are either less good or more expensive. [Note: I know there is the 70-200 F2.8 but looking at IQs the F4L IS was the best out of the lot (inc 3rd party) + weather sealing].

So from my PoV (based only on a quick google) that my current setup is not reproducible to the same IQ with Sony stuff.

FidelZastro · 31 Oct 2011 at 19:33

Hunders said:
My 7D arrived today. Very chuffed with it, although I've not had a proper play yet! The 24-70L that I bought to pair up with it seems very nice, too.

Great combo, especially when you don't use wide angle that often. It goes really well with the English weather, too - even without an umbrella

Tysonator · 1 Nov 2011 at 23:00

I started of with a Canon EOS 400D, which is really a revamped 350D !
When I up graded to the 7D,...wow what a camera I was really impressed by it.
I am still learning all of it features which will take me a while.
Now IQ is amazing when compared to my 400D and is still pretty damn good when compared to Nikon D700s and yes glass does become a major issue.
So if you buy a top rated DSLR then you do need to buy some very decent glass to go with.
The 5D MKII does have better IQ at low light capability over the 7D, however the 7D is still very good in low light even at ISO3200 !
When the 5D MKIII comes out I might save lots of pennies and buy one if it a lot better than my 7D !

neil_g · 4 Nov 2011 at 10:23

Raymond Lin said:
Sigma and Tamron do make nice glass, but they are not in the same league as the actual brand for the camera maker itself. For 1 thing, 3rd party makers like Sigma need to reverse engineer all their lenses to suit. There is no guarantee that the next body you buy, the sigma lens you have in your bag will work with it.

while i agree with most of what raymond says in this thread i have to pick up on this.

there are exceptions to "not being in the same league", the 50mm 1.4 for example. performs better in (i think) every review i read before i bought.

and as for reverse engineering, yeah that is potentially true. however havent had an issue with my oldest sigma being 7 years old (i think) and the newest body being the 5dmk2. it seems to be the really old sigmas that have issues, even then its normally just a case of re-chipping them.

An Exception · 4 Nov 2011 at 10:27

I thought in many ways the Sigma 85 1.4 was better than the 1.2, with the only downsides (from what I recall) being a slightly different colour temperature to Canon glass and not having the 1.2, but being faster to focus and sharper at the same aperture.

Having said that, I once had the Sigma 17-70 F4.5 and it was terrible had terrible back focusing at the wide end, but the error only occurred if the background had more contrast then the subject, but that's the old sigma I guess.

33L · 4 Nov 2011 at 11:35

congrats onthe purchase it is a very fine camera indeed.
my mate uses one and i know they can perform, i have the 24-70 and love it to bits, even though it is being resided to a backup lens as i generally shoot primes now.