Can anyone help a home network problem, please?

[Di Wedd]

Hi there,

I wonder if anyone can help me with a home network issue.

Current Setup
We have two buildings on our property. The main house [building 1] is the primary internet access point. It has a fibre internet line into the house / router. From the router are Ethernet cables and other cables that connect to the TV, PCs etc. It provides Wi-Fi as well. From the router runs a cable also to the cottage [building 2]. For the purpose of this discussion, the SSID for the network in the house is Firehouse.

The cottage, which is used for guests, is connected to the main house / router with the aforementioned cable. It runs into a wireless range extender, which provides Wi-Fi, as well as Ethernet cable connections to a PC and TV. The SSID for the network in the cottage is the same as the SSID in the main house i.e. Firehouse.

You can see the current setup in this image -



The Problem
We have a problem with the network in the cottage. In certain parts of the cottage, when connected over Wi-Fi, a phone/laptop or other devise tries to connect to the router in the main house, not the range extender in the cottage. This is frustrating because the Wi-Fi signal strength on the phone/laptop/devise is poor, resulting in very slow (or at times non-existent). I don't understand why the phone/laptop/devise is connecting to the router in the house and not the wireless extender in the cottage. As I said, it is only in certain parts of the cottage i.e. the parts closer to the main house. How can I stop any devises from connecting over Wi-Fi to the router in the main house?

I thought it would be good if I rename the network in the cottage, but apparently this is not possible because the wireless network extender is an internet access point only. It requires the same SSID as the main house.

If I changed the wireless range extender to a router, can I connect the new router with a cable (as shown in the image) to the router in the main house? And if possible, will this allow me to change the SSID in the cottage?

I know an alternative is to put a separate line into the cottage, but due to the cost, I would like to avoid this for now.

I hope this is clear and makes sense. I am not an IT person, so do not know too much about these things. Please feel free to ask me questions if you need any further information or clarification.

Any help/suggestions will be appreciated.
D

 

[Di Wedd]

What is the brand/model of the "wireless range extender" and the router?

The brand/model is a D-Link DAP-1360

Are the settings identical? Encryption is set the same for both devices?

As far as I know, the settings are identical. I didn't install it, but a family member who works in the Networking field did it. He stated that the settings and encryption is identical. Unfortunately I am unable to contact him to verify.

Does this occur when you are in the main house and then move to the cottage or do the devices try and connect (for the first time) to the main house?

It occurs in the cottage, but only in the part nearest to the main house. So for example, if I have a laptop in the cottage, it connects to the Wi-Fi network in the cottage. If I move the laptop to the part of the cottage closest to the main house, it drops the Wi-Fi from the network extender and connects to the router in the main house. As far as I know, the devices connect the network in the cottage most of the time and certainly initially it connected to the cottage network.

If the device is connected to the main house (from within the cottage), if you turn off the wifi and turn it back on, does it then connect to the cottage wifi? (from within the cottage)

No, it connects to the Wi-Fi in the main house.

It is like the cottage Wi-Fi (which is closer to the devise) is lost. It is frustrating because it is literally just a few feet away from the network extender. The main house router is much further.

 

[Di Wedd]

I would replace the extender (if it doesnt let you change the SSID) to a cable router/dedicated AP that can have a different SSID.

So if I get a router, can I connect that with a cable to the router in the main house and just rename the network in the cottage?

Please excuse my ignorance, but I don't know if a router-to-router connection is possible. I don't want to lose internet access in the cottage if I connect a router from the cottage to one in the main house.

 

[Di Wedd]

Yes any router (ADSL or cable) will allow this. Just connect from LAN port on main router to a LAN port on the second router - I have 3 routers running Wifi in my house as it was cheaper to reuse than to buy dedicated.

If you bought a cable router (so not one with a modem included) you could even create a dedicated network within the cottage so the house is on say 192.168.1.1 and the cottage is on 192.168.2.1

The answer then for me is to get another router. Thank you so much. I appreciate your replies very much.

 

[Di Wedd]

Same SSIDs on different devices not configured for roaming hand off will often cause this issue, normally when the last network they connected to was the firehouse one, they will try to reconnect to that even if the signal strength is lower than the cottage.

If you could, could you explain this to me. I think I understand what you are saying, but I am not entirely sure.

 

[Di Wedd]

Your device basically likes sticking to the last network it connected to if it's in range and given a choice.

Thank you, much appreciate.

 

[Di Wedd]

Any decent access point will allow you to pick any SSID you want.

Do you want ethernet ports on the second building? Or is it only WiFi you want?

The wireless extender I have acts as an access point. What I want to do however is to have a different SSID for the cottage, so that the devises don't try and pick of the SSID in the main house (even though they are supposed to pick up the SSID in the cottage, which they do, but in certain parts they connect to the SSID in the main house). My understanding is that I can't rename the SSID in the cottage because the wireless extender is an access point. I was told that you can't have a different SSID if you use an access point. It has to be a router.

The cottage needs Wi-Fi and Ethernet cables (in order to connect to a PC and the TV). The PC can connect to Wi-Fi if I plug in an adaptor in one pf the USB slots, but ideally an Ethernet cable is better. That is the current set-up.

 

[Di Wedd]

Just get a couple of UniFi AP's, put one in the house and one in the cottage. Cost around £200 for 2 x UniFi AC LR's.

Much better this way as with UniFi you can have a Guest WiFi in the cottage and then lock it down with guest policies.

Thank you very much for your suggestion, I will look into this too. I don't know about UniFi AC LR's.

 

[Di Wedd]

From reading the thread you want a basic router in the cottage. This will provide ethernet points and WiFi for the cottage.

I've got the same setup at home, router downstairs where phone-line enters the house, then another router in the loft (man cave) hard wired to original router. The second routers ssid is different to the first so i can manually connect to the router with the strongest signal depending on where i am in the house. I'm using a Netgear R6220 in access point mode, original router was a netgear so i wanted them to match

Thank you for your reply. This sounds exactly like my situation, but just on two different levels. My situation is two different buildings.

 

[Di Wedd]

So I don't think you need to buy anything.

Your D-Link device will absolutely act as a regular access point and you can give it a different SSID in the cottage to the SSID of the router in the main house. See page 23 of the manual:

http://files.dlink.com.au/Products/DAP-1360/Manuals/DAP-1360_F1_Manual_v6.00(DI).pdf

Thank you for looking into this. I have not looked at the manual yet, but it sounds really promising. It would be great if I don't have to buy anything.

You've done the hard bit of having an ethernet cable run between the house and the cottage. If you need wired clients as well you put a cheap switch on the end of the ethernet cable in the cottage and plug the D-Link into the switch. If just wifi then plug the D-Link onto the end of the ethernet cable as it emerges in the cottage.

I think I am following what you are saying here. If I am not mistaken, I have this already, but I'm not sure. I have a D-Link DES 1005A Desktop Switch plugged into the the D-Link Network Adaptor. It looks like this:

Front - https://qwertypoint.imgur.com/all/
Back - https://i.imgur.com/f2mYhZb.jpg

 

[Di Wedd]

How does your DAP-1360 provide ethernet connections to the TV and PC in the cottage when it only has one ethernet LAN port?

I think it is through the DES-1005A Ethernet Desktop - http://www.dlink.com.sg/product/5-port-fast-ethernet-desktop-switch-in-plastic-casing/ Switch. I have this devise plugged into my router (see https://i.imgur.com/rNCmKrc.jpg & https://i.imgur.com/f2mYhZb.jpg)

As long as these two devices are already connected to the network via LAN cable then all you need to do is change the ssid of the cottage access point (exactly like @BigT has stated in his post).

So if I understand this correctly, even though the DAP-1360 is an Access Point, it will allow me to change the SSID in the cottage by following the instructions in the manual.

I have the same setup in my house with a DLINK router in Access Point mode in the garage providing wireless and lan connectivity. albeit on a different SSID to the house so I know what to connect to should I have poor signal with either.

If I am reading this correctly, your garage has a D-Link Access Point (providing WI-Fi and lan connectivity) with a SSID that is different from the house. Is the router in the house the main Internet access point then?

Apologies if I am complicating this. I'm trying to get my head round this. It is not an area I know well.

 

[Di Wedd]

Two routers is bad advice. (Unless it's set to AP mode)

Check your current AP settings add change the SSID.

Or buy a Unifi access point.

Thanks. I don't like the idea of two routers, but I am open to all ideas to resolve the problem. By the sound from other responses, I may not need a second router. The confusing thing is, the initial information I was given, was that I won't be able to change the SSID for my current AP. It seems however, that I will be able to do this.

I have never heard of Unifi access points until this discussion started, so I will research that as well.

 

[Di Wedd]

Any decent access point will allow you to pick any SSID you want.

Do you want ethernet ports on the second building? Or is it only WiFi you want?

I don't know how decent my access point is, but it seems it may not be as bad as I thought. I do use Ethernet connections in the second building with the use of a DES-1005A Ethernet Desktop Switch - http://www.dlink.com.sg/product/5-port-fast-ethernet-desktop-switch-in-plastic-casing/

 

[Di Wedd]

I basic Gigabit Switch to replace that 100Mbit Switch that you linked and Access Point such as a Unifi AP AC Lite/LR, job done for £100 and gotten rid of the crappy Extender and just as cruddy Switch. Why is this getting over complicated.

Thank you for the advice. I have only now realized that the that the Network Switch is only 100Mbit and not Gigabit, effectively slwoing down the speed in the cottage. This is explains why I have felt frustrated with the speed in the cottage at times.

 

[Di Wedd]

Excuse the poor quick and dirty diagram, but this is how you'd wire it up with your existing kit. While changing the switch to gigabit is a decent enough idea, your access point only supports 100Mbit so your wireless won't support any faster. If you move a lot of data on your LAN or you have >100Mbit internet then upgrading is still a good idea but if neither of those conditions is true then you won't see much

Wow, thank you so much for taking time to do this. I do not think it is poor at all. It shows my exact situation.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the D-link DAP-1360 only supports 100Mbit and not Gigabit transfer. Is this correct? If so, it is not only the DES-1005A Ethernet Desktop Switch that is an issue, but also the actual Access Point. So, if I want faster Internet in the cottage, I will need to replace the D-Link DAP-1360 Wireless Network Extender and the D-Link DES 1005A Desktop Switch.

I had a look at the specs for the D-Link DAP-1360 Wireless Network Extender here - http://www.dlink.com/uk/en/products/dap-1360-wireless-n-open-source-access-point-router, but sine this is not an area I am familiar with, I can't work out what the speed is, or suppose to be. Under Connectivity it states:

Wireless speeds of up to 300 Mbps

Lan (under Network Standards) is 802.11n
802.3/802.3u (Ethernet)

Thank you again for your help. I appreciate it very much.

 

[Di Wedd]

To everyone that has been responded to this, thank you so much. This has been really interesting and I have learned quite a bit in the process.

The discussion has veered off a bit because the limitations of my Network Extender and Network Switch came to light. However, coming back to my original questions about preventing devises in the cottage to connect to the network in the house, I am really very pleased to let you all know that I managed to rename the SSID in the cottage as per BigT's suggestion.

I did it this morning and I now have a different network name for the cottage. Devises in the cottage are no longer connecting to the network in the main house. This include the areas of the cottage that were problematic.

The main house now has an SSID (called Firehouse) and the cottage (called Firecottage). Everything is connected and working. The only thing left to do is to improve the speed.

 

[Di Wedd]

Correct. Router in house which is connected directly to the phone socket. 8 Port Gigabit switch connected to the router. AP in the garage connects to the gigabit switch via lan cable.

As already mentioned you do not need to upgrade any of the switches or routers you have currently if your internet connection speed is below 100mbit, you'll see no benefit with internet speed if you do. What speed is your internet?

Basically both your DAP-1360 and DES-1005A are limited to 100Mbit (the switch is badged as 10/100 and the data sheet here says the DAP-1360 has a 100Mbit port: http://www.dlink.com/uk/en/-/media/...360/datasheet/dap_1360_f1_datasheet_en_eu.pdf)

I always think it is disingenuous when they list an access point as 300Mbit but in fact you're limited by the weakest link on the device which is the ethernet port connecting to your wired network.

If you want to improve throughput around your LAN and/or if your internet is in excess of 100Mbit and you want to make full use of the speed in the cottage then you'll have to upgrade both. @DIABLO has already given the best option most people here would suggest, a Ubiquiti Unifi Access Point (A Lite would probably be fine for you https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-lite/ ) instead of your range extender and replace the switch for a cheap unmanaged gigabit version. TP-Link and Netgear do nice 8 port metal designs for <£30. It's generally worth paying the extra for 8 ports as it is not much more than 4/5.

Thank you. I will look at getting a Ubiquiti Unifi Access Point and an 8 ports gigabit switch somewhere down the line. For now, at least I have two different SSIDs.

 

[Di Wedd]

What speed is your internet?

I used several online speed tests and the results vary, but it is basically between 17 - 19 Mbps (down) and 9 - 11 Mbps (up). That seems very slow, if I am not mistaken.