Canadian Grand Prix 2015, Montréal - Race 7/19

It will be boring upfront but shouldn't be a boring race. Never quite known why it matters to people where the action is, if 5th is passing 6th but 1st/2nd aren't fighting, who cares. Racing is racing, if it's 1st-3rd fighting with each other or 5-15th I've never cared.

A boring race has no action anywhere on the grid, a good race has a lot of action, doesn't matter where it is in the grid at all.

With Vettel, Massa and Verstappen way back we should hopefully see them both fighting each other as they fight past slower cars. They'll end up dropping back in pits and having to pass people again. Verstappen will have a lengthy penalty and end up having to pass loads of people several times. Start from the back, fight through then drop back further than normal at the pitstop.

There will be loads of passing and I think WIlliams/Lotus will be fighting a lot this race, maybe with Kimi in the mix also.
 
Mclaren problems, being said it was the MGU-H that died. They took a 4th TC and MGU-H on Friday and these were parts they upgraded with reliability and token changes. It managed less than 3 sessions, hell missed half of P2 as well, then died and needs a replacement.

Button now has a 10 second penalty as well as starting from the back, or, pitlane I guess because he didn't take part in qualifying.

New MGU-H dying that quickly, worse than the first mgu-h. Penalty might increase as well if they need a new turbo as well.
 
5 place grid penalty for Vettel for passing a car under red flag conditions. So he will start 20th on the grid or will it be 19th as Button may start from pitlane?

Either way he is in for a tough day at the office.
 
IPBA said:
5 place grid penalty for Vettel for passing a car under red flag conditions. So he will start 20th on the grid or will it be 19th as Button may start from pitlane?

Either way he is in for a tough day at the office.
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Sounds like Button will start from the grid but at the back and who starts right at the back appears to be a bit of a who gets a penalty and when situation. I think Button's will count as being right at the back because those taking part have their penalties applied first... maybe?

I think he'll take a 4 grid slot penalty, actually start from 19th because Button's will be applied after his, then he'll have a 5 second penalty during his pitstop because of having a 1 grid penalty left over...... maybe :p

Depends if anything else changes overnight tbh. They may change something on a car causing it to start from the pit lane and bumping them up more places. Would think all the Renaults could be in danger of needing new parts.

EDIT:- not actually sure if the extra time penalties only applies to grid penalties from PU changes or if it applies to all grid penalties.....
 
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Skeeter said:
Yeah we need the reliable old V8s, that struggled to last 2 races...

:rolleyes:
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No idea what he's on, we've had frankly awesome reliability from some engines. 6 freaking races on one gearbox from the Merc engine. Being complex doesn't make something inherently reliable. The V8's failed frankly as/more often than these engines did last year. Only Honda who massive rushed development and Renault who merely seem to be entirely incompetent have had trouble. Ferrari had great reliability this and last year along with good performance this year.

In the old days engines blew up constantly and they were by comparison not at all complex.
 
adam cool dude said:
Why do the pundits value Verstappen so high? Sainz has out qualified him 5 to 2, has more points than him and his dads a legend.
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Both drivers have had car failures though also a crash for Verstappen. Points aren't an indicator of performance when the Renault engine is mostly lucky to finish a race. Verstappen's qualifying hasn't been as impressive as Sainz but Verstappen has shown probably better race craft.

The things to remember are this is Verstappens second year in single seater cars with only a single year on F3 before this. Sainz has done 5 years of competitive racing before this season in various single seater cars while being 3 full years older. I can't remember if it was him or Nasr, maybe even Ericson, one has raced in 200 races already and I think it was Sainz.

Too much effort to look into every race at this time of night but looking at just China Verstappen was 8th when his car blew having made some brilliant overtakes to move forward while Sainz was 15th. In another race I'm fairly sure Sainz had a terrible pitstop where the team fluffed something and held him up 15 seconds. Results/points aren't the be all and end all of judging a driver which is only even more significant when cars fail and not because of driver error. AS yet Verstappen has had worse luck with reliability.

Both have been incredibly impressive, but given that Sainz has a HUGE number of races under his belt even given being 3 years older it was pretty much expected that Sainz would be significantly more experienced than Verstappen and almost certain out perform him. That to many people it looks like Verstappen is already close in qualifying and probably better in the race, making better over takes and showing maybe better race pace, basically he's already closer than people expected him to be given the difference in age/experience.

Both could go really far in F1 looking at how they've performed so far. It's just hard not to be more impressed by Verstappen given what I've mentioned, age, previous experience and best moves in the races so far. Today I'd say Sainz is more likely to outqualify and just about more likely to get more points (given no reliability issues), but 5 years from now I wouldn't be surprised if Verstappen is the better driver.
 
IPBA said:
5 place grid penalty for Vettel for passing a car under red flag conditions. So he will start 20th on the grid or will it be 19th as Button may start from pitlane?

Either way he is in for a tough day at the office.
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Provisional grid lists it as Vettel 18th, Verstappen 19th and Button 20th now.

The really odd/retarded thing is. Verstappen qualified 12th with a 15 place grid penalty but the FIA are classifying it as he's taken 7 place penalty because he's starting in 19th and he had 8 grid slots left to serve.

Now the penalties are based on how many grid slots left over to serve.
1-5 is a 5 second penalty
6-10 is a 10 second penalty
11-20 is a drive through
21+ is a stop go penalty.

So it doesn't matter either way this time. But if Verstappen had qualified 10th he could have served a 10 grid penalty starting 20th, had 5 left over and served a 5 second penalty. But because someone else got a penalty as well he is promoted to 19th and he would be forced to take a 10 second penalty because they'd count this as having a 6 grid penalty left to serve? Is that not utterly absurd. so he gains a place due to Button but could(had he qualified in 10th) gain one place but lose 5 extra seconds.

It should really ignore anyone elses penalty, it's not his fault someone else got a penalty, it should be qualifying position to 20th then take whatever is left over, even if 10 people then take a penalty and you start 10th anyway.

The other way would be if Verstappen qualified even worse due to being promoted to 19th he could have ended up with a drive through instead of a 10 second penalty.
 
Its interesting looking at the qualifying times and comparing them to last year. It gives you an idea on how each team have improved (or not). Taking the top time from each team (other than McLaren and Lotus who have different engines):

Merc: 1:14:393 vs 1:14:874
RB: 1:15:538 vs 1:16:079
Williams: 1:15:102 vs 1:15:550
Ferrari: 1:15:014 vs 1:15:814
Force India: 1:15:614 vs 1:16:300
TR: 1:16:042 vs 1:16:162
Sauber: 1:16:262 vs 1:17:314
Manor: 1:19:133 vs 1:18:348

It looks like on average around 0.7s a lap improvement in general apart from Manor for obvious reasons. However the increase in laptime for Redbull is the most notable. They've lost 0.5s compared to 2014 which when you consider even Toro Rosso are 0.1s faster this year shows how poor they're performing. I can't help but feel they've lost a lot of time from the change in the nose regs this year, especially when you consider their speedtrap figures of 330kph in 2015 vs 325kph in 2014. The engine is poor but an improvement on last year.
 
Trying to work out what Vettel is playing at, he's apparently telling everyone that Mehri was going too slow so he passed him. But it was a red flag in which you're supposed to go slowly back and he passed him going over 250kph and Mehri was going well over 200kph... he was hardly limping back to the pits. If Mehri was doing 30-50kph that might be one thing but saying he was slow while doing over 200kph during a red flag regardless of where on the track the reason for the red flag was. It's just absurd.
 
As well as starting from the pit lane, Button now also has a penalty - either a drive through or a 10 second stop. If he completes the race, and that's a big if at the moment, he'll be lucky to catch and pass the Manors.
 
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