Canon 200-400mm L announced - £11,999

200/2 would be quite awesome. I'd probably agree with you, as long term it'd be one of the longest primes I'd actually look to own for expensive wise (although realistically, if I wasn't getting it for free I'd just buy a 200/2.8.

kd
 
It is a hell of a lens for sure. It looks sharp, ultra flexible, useful range and built in converter, with it the lens now covers 200-560mm. I also agree with what he said that it is nice that Canon is making innovative designs to its lenses with the inclusion of the converter. Personally I would never get one, or need one, but it is pleasing to see a company pushing the boundaries of techonology and design, makes you wonder what else they are going to do next.

Price aside of course, it takes it away from the amateur and reduce it to professional. Even when it is 20% cheaper than the £12k sticker price it would be more than I can stomach.
 
It's very annoying to see the US price being almost half already :/

$11,799.00

Could have a holiday in the US for the price difference! Will be interesting to see the grey import prices once they get their hands on some over there.
 
The difference is £1552 when you take VAT into consideration. I wouldn't feel too hard done by because that's how it works for most things, UK list price is identical to US in terms of $1 = £1.
 
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It's nowhere near "half" but don't see where you're getting £1552 from, more like £2200-2300 before tax.

olv said:
Any European buyer would be totally nuts not to just order one in America and fly over and pick it up saving £4000.
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Just make sure you hide/destroy/mail all receipts and packaging before you bring it back through customs! ;)
 
Janesy B said:
The difference is £1552 when you take VAT into consideration. I wouldn't feel too hard done by because that's how it works for most things, UK list price is identical to US in terms of $1 = £1.
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Interesting maths there.

Vertigo1 said:
Just make sure you hide/destroy/mail all receipts and packaging before you bring it back through customs!
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Surely you'd be wearing a big badge that says "I JUST SAVED £4K ON A LENS WHOOPEE", no?
 
£2530 cheaper if you include VAT. Is there import duty on lenses or just VAT?

EDIT: £1958 discount including duty... That's a nice two week holiday to Oregon or New Hampshire to test the lens after you bought it...
 
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Raymond Lin said:
It is a hell of a lens for sure. It looks sharp, ultra flexible, useful range and built in converter, with it the lens now covers 200-560mm. I also agree with what he said that it is nice that Canon is making innovative designs to its lenses with the inclusion of the converter. Personally I would never get one, or need one, but it is pleasing to see a company pushing the boundaries of techonology and design, makes you wonder what else they are going to do next.

Price aside of course, it takes it away from the amateur and reduce it to professional. Even when it is 20% cheaper than the £12k sticker price it would be more than I can stomach.
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It is hardly that innovative though, Nikon has had a 200-400mm f/4.0 for nearly 30 years now.

The idea of have a TC built in does make the lens easier to swap between bare and with a TC but you then cannot use the TC on any other lens which is a big cost (well, would be on more normal priced tele lenses). Beyond that it is forcing you to use only a 1.4xTC, what if you wanted to use a 1.7 or 2.0xTC? I gather from Nikon users that if they are willing to use the 1.4xTC on the 200-400 they are likely to use the other TCs at times

Also, it is not really the kind of classic lens that a TC is really well matched for. Typcially you use a TC to maximise your focal length because your biggest lens is at its limits for the subject size and distance. If somehow the subject comes much closer then the downside of the TC is that it will take time and some difficulty on a big lens to remove. If you are using a zoom then you can just change focal length accepting the quality loss of the TC, which you agreed to when first using the TC anyway.

TCs are great at adding versatility and extra reach to prime lens. A 600mm f/4.0 that had this built in 1.4xTC might be a good idea, but again you have people that use the 2.0xTC with the 600 for small birds etc.



What I would prefer to see is a module that lets you select between 1.4 and 2.0x TC or blank, and this module can be attached to different lenses. One up front high cost but you can use it on all supported lenses and easily swap between 3 TCs (nothing,1.4,2.0). For prime lenses this would be epic, e.g. 400mm f/2.8 with 560mm f/4.0 and 800mm f/5.6 settings. For a zoom lens it just would not be so useful.
 
D.P. said:
It is hardly that innovative though, Nikon has had a 200-400mm f/4.0 for nearly 30 years now.

The idea of have a TC built in does make the lens easier to swap between bare and with a TC but you then cannot use the TC on any other lens which is a big cost (well, would be on more normal priced tele lenses). Beyond that it is forcing you to use only a 1.4xTC, what if you wanted to use a 1.7 or 2.0xTC? I gather from Nikon users that if they are willing to use the 1.4xTC on the 200-400 they are likely to use the other TCs at times

Also, it is not really the kind of classic lens that a TC is really well matched for. Typcially you use a TC to maximise your focal length because your biggest lens is at its limits for the subject size and distance. If somehow the subject comes much closer then the downside of the TC is that it will take time and some difficulty on a big lens to remove. If you are using a zoom then you can just change focal length accepting the quality loss of the TC, which you agreed to when first using the TC anyway.

TCs are great at adding versatility and extra reach to prime lens. A 600mm f/4.0 that had this built in 1.4xTC might be a good idea, but again you have people that use the 2.0xTC with the 600 for small birds etc.



What I would prefer to see is a module that lets you select between 1.4 and 2.0x TC or blank, and this module can be attached to different lenses. One up front high cost but you can use it on all supported lenses and easily swap between 3 TCs (nothing,1.4,2.0). For prime lenses this would be epic, e.g. 400mm f/2.8 with 560mm f/4.0 and 800mm f/5.6 settings. For a zoom lens it just would not be so useful.
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I was referencing Andy Rouse's experience with it. I confess I don't have anything that long or tried it, nor does it interest me and no offence D.P., I rather trust his judgment of having used it for 6 months over yours on how good this 200-400 is and how useful the TC is on a 200-400.

Innovative as in have you seen a lens with a built in TC? This is a first, thus innovative. Not its focal range. And please don't go down this Canon v Nikon debat about how Nikon always had one. I don't care Nikon has one....i know that. Like AR said, it is pointles comparing the 2 brand, we are merely talking about the lens on its own and its merits.

As for what a TC is useful for, that is YOUR opinion, other photographers would shoot differently at different focal length and to say a TC is only good for certain focal range is somewhat, ignorant? I dunno, but it is like limiting yourself creatively before you even begun.

The TC offers VERSILTITY, adding focal length on the fly, from that review, there is no time loss in adding or removing TC in the field.
 
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Having spet 3 weeks shooting wildlife with my 120-300 and playing with the TC's the ability to just flick it in and out would have been awesome. Just because you're using a zoom doesn't mean the ability to just jump from 300-200mm at the short end isn't very, very useful.
 
I am not making this a Nikon vs Canon debate, i'm just saying a 200-400mm f/4.0 is an innovative design of Nikon's, adding a TC is novel and handy but it is not really an interesting innovative design that fundamentally changes things. It merely makes things easier and faster to change the TC cf. other lenses with separate TCs. The downside being the TC cannot be re-used and is a fixed magnification, if you want to use a 1.7 or 2.0x TC you are out of luck. And that is why there has likely never been a previous lens with a built in TC, despite many lenses having dedicated TC designed and manufactured only for use with that lens.



I have no idea why you are talking about TCs only useful at certain focal lengths, I said nothing of the sort. I merely pointed out that TCs are much more useful on fixed focal length prime lenses where you cannot change the zoom on the fly. If the TC is attached and you need a shorter focal length then you have no choice but to do dismount the lens and remove the TC. With a built in TC like Canon has then things are much easier and would be a great improvement in functionality.
However, On a zoom lens you don't have to remove the TC if you don't want to (or can't because the time it takes and subject movement), simply change the zoom. You can still take the same photo with the same composition (albeit a stop slower). Functioanality is barely changed (you capture the same photos with same compositions), just made quicker and easier.
 
Amp34 said:
Having spet 3 weeks shooting wildlife with my 120-300 and playing with the TC's the ability to just flick it in and out would have been awesome. Just because you're using a zoom doesn't mean the ability to just jump from 300-200mm at the short end isn't very, very useful.
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You can still capture the same photo with the same composition.

And what if you wanted to use a 2.0x TC? with the Canon solution here it is only a partial solution. I an not saying that a built in TC is not useful, if you read my post I actually say it is really useful (much easier and faster). But what you loose is the flexibility to choose different TCs and reuse those expensive optics on different lenses.

Wouldn't you prefer a module like I described where you can select between 1.4x, 2.0x or 1.0X (blank) and re-use this module on any tele lens you own without shelling out money for a built in TC each time?
 
Speed (flick)
More reach when flicked - again, speed
Dust - minimise
Weight - carrying all those primes
Speed - aperture aspect. Instant stop faster at a flick of a switch, again, flick of a switch.

I don't shoot wild life but i am guessing most animals move quite fast? especially if they hear someone nearby fiddling with some metal lenses, mounting a TC, or changing lenses and what not? and the ability to adapt focal range from 200mm to 560mm with very little time loss is I don't know, rather useful ?

Like I said, it won't be a lens I will get, cost and focal range is not for me, but if your livelihood depend on it, I would think the difference in getting or not getting the shot is quite important?
 
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I never said any of those advantages are not apparent, I specifically said that speed and ease of use are much better with a built in TC.


I think we are not communicating clearly on the getting the shot part. I 100% agree that getting the shot is fundamental. The typcialy use case for the 200-400 without a built in TC would be:
1) Observe that subject size and distance (shy rhinos on safari) for todays shooting requires TC, put on TC.
2) Spend some time shooting distant rhinos on safari
3) Suddenly a large male lion approaches landrover very closely, zoom out and capture identical photos to that guy with the lens with the built in TC but accept shooting at f/5.6 or less vs f/4.0 or less. Guy with fancy new Canon lens just has to switch theTC setting on lens which is nice, but when comparing photos with a G&T back at camp there is relatively no difference.


4) Next day on safari, flamingos spotted but are a long way form shore. Guy with plain 200-400 puts on 2xTC, AF is slow and the images wont be as crisp at a naked lens but he gets some nice full frame captures that can still show fine feather detail. Guy with fancy lens with built in TC is stuck at 560mm, flamingos smaller in frame, composition cannot be matched without post-crops, final image has less detail.


and of course scenario 5)
Zebra are up close to landrover so both guys shoot 200-400 naked (although wearing clothes). Out of no where a leopard is spotted in distance, landrover cannot approach closely for some reason. Canon guy flicks some switches and has a 560mm lens. Guy without built in TC, has to take lens off and quickly add TC. This takes longer and under some circumstances could cost the shot, although changing TCs is much like changing small prime lenses in a wedding- something Raymond I am sure you are quite happy in doing otherwise you would always use a 24-70! (changing TCs is normally very easy because the lens is supported by the tripod, you just unlock the camera leaving the heavy lens supported, flick on the TC like a small light prime, and then re-attach camera+TC.

Just for fun there is someone using D.P.'s patent-pending super-TC module which combines the speed of the Canon's guys flick of a switch transition with the Nikon guys 2.0xTC and gains the 800mm needed to capture the FF shot of the leopard.


And for completeness, there was also a Guy with an 400mm (or 600mm, whatever) prime lens who is constantly adding and removing the TCs. When that lion get really close he cannot simply zoom out like the 200-400 owners, but is forced to remove the TC (and likely change lenses). If this prime lens had the ability swap between different TC settings then it would be much mere flexible. The reality is the guy with the fixed prime will either decide on a different composition (e.g. head and should portrait of the lion) or simply swap to his second camera with a 70-200 mounted.
 
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D.P. said:
You can still capture the same photo with the same composition.

And what if you wanted to use a 2.0x TC? with the Canon solution here it is only a partial solution. I an not saying that a built in TC is not useful, if you read my post I actually say it is really useful (much easier and faster). But what you loose is the flexibility to choose different TCs and reuse those expensive optics on different lenses.

Wouldn't you prefer a module like I described where you can select between 1.4x, 2.0x or 1.0X (blank) and re-use this module on any tele lens you own without shelling out money for a built in TC each time?
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Not if you have a 1.4TC on and need 200mm... You need to remove the lens, take the TC off, put the lens back on and then hope the image hasn't vanished and it's not too dusty.

You would stick the 2x on the front of the lens like normal. The benefit of the integrated TC (aside from speed) is that it is designed specifically to work with that lens, it's less a TC and more a couple of bits of glass you can remove if needed. If you make an interchangeable module you sacrifice the quality in one lens for it to work with many lenses.

I like the idea of the module but I could see it being pretty hefty, probably about 500g+, which could be a bit of a pain, especially if you only need the 1.4TC.

With one that's built in you just need to flick a button, no worries about dust, removing lenses or missing the shot and you have the best quality it can buy. If you think of the lens as a 280-560 f/5.6 with the ability to remove an element to turn it into a 200-400 if you need that extra width/stop in bad light and it looks far more positive. As for expense, it's built in. I doubt it'll add much on to the cost (say 10% max) and that will be included in any resale prices as well.

EDIT: oh and another positive. When you're balancing a 3kg lens on your leg, removing the camera and fiddling with the TC when removing it and adding it the idea of just a flick is a big positive, saves you having the issue of dropping one of the above and storing the TC within reach when you don't immediately need it. Do you stick the caps back on and put it on the floor? In your pocket? Balace it on something without the caps on, hoping it won't get dust on the elements? :p
 
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I can change primes in a wedding because people don't run away. :p

Plus I have 3 FF bodies...

And if your superduper TC ever makes it out, I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes but for now, we can only dream eh.
 
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