Canon 5D MK III, Going From Manual To AV

[CGrieves]

Are you happy with the results you're getting with your preferred technique? Looking at your shots from India, I certainly would be....

Obviously it's worth understanding the different modes, but if it's going to get in the way of getting great shots, I'd say stick with what works.

 

[GTRacer]

I think you're changing too much at once, I'd say try back button AF + manual for a week or two so you get used to separating focusing from the shutter release, then once that feels natural throw Av + exposure locking/compensation.

 

[D.P.]

Great points about the ISO and WB. Probably could save a fair bit of time just leaving those on manual and changing anything like that in post.

I've spent a day shooting with the back button focus and using shutter button to lock exposure.

It's painfully slow and seems convoluted when compared with the speed that I tend to do things at in manual.

If I'm on the street and I want to shoot a portrait (in manual), I usually centre the subject, adjust shutter to expose, half press to focus and recompose / shoot. Further shots in the same lighting conditions are obviously executed a lot faster.

With the new way of doing things in Av: Centering subject and locking exposure, moving focus point, back button to focus and then shutter to take the shot seems to be taking far longer and doesn't feel quite "right".

I'll give it a few more days and see how it feels...

Once again, thank you all for the input.

I think you are sill making this overly complex.

No need to center subject, or lock exposure, or fiddle with too many buttons.

All you have to do is compose your photo and select the focus point over the subject at the aperture you want. It is extremely fast and incredibly simply, no need to half press things or do anything else weird 99% of the time.

 

[steve_c]

I think you're changing too much at once, I'd say try back button AF + manual for a week or two so you get used to separating focusing from the shutter release, then once that feels natural throw Av + exposure locking/compensation.

This is a great idea. I will give it a shot.

I think you are sill making this overly complex.

No need to center subject, or lock exposure, or fiddle with too many buttons.

All you have to do is compose your photo and select the focus point over the subject at the aperture you want. It is extremely fast and incredibly simply, no need to half press things or do anything else weird 99% of the time.

I understand what you are saying but many times, the background is lighter or darker than my subject *and* I want to frame my subject to the left or right.

If I am not framing my subject in the centre, the metering will be off even if I select a different focus point.

The 5D III (AFAIK) takes metering from the centre only (I use either spot or partial). Av will adjust the shutter speed to correctly expose the centre of the frame or am I missing something?

 

[D.P.]

This is a great idea. I will give it a shot.



I understand what you are saying but many times, the background is lighter or darker than my subject *and* I want to frame my subject to the left or right.

If I am not framing my subject in the centre, the metering will be off even if I select a different focus point.

The 5D III (AFAIK) takes metering from the centre only (I use either spot or partial). Av will adjust the shutter speed to correctly expose the centre of the frame or am I missing something?

I don't know the 5DMKIII and it might be might be weird but it would be a completely useless brick to me if it didn't take metering off the focus point. When you do spot metering the whole point is the spot metering is where the focus point is, otherwise it just wouldn't work. I can't believe the Canon 5DMKIII could be so backwards that it doesn't allow proper spot metering off the subject. I could be wrong but that would be very perplexing to me.

Putting that aside, exposure difference that is what exposure compensation can sort out in a jiffy. Use matrix metering (on Nikon bodies even Matrix metering will consider the exposure under the focus point along with the rest of the scene). If you know the subject is strongly back lit then you dial in +1 EC, if you want want the shadows darker and protect highlights you dial in -1.

You don't need to meter off the subject explicitly most of the time, once you understand how the metering system works you learn to use EC to make adjustments on the fly. It becomes very intuitive, you will just know when the metering will need adjustment before you ever press the trigger. Spot metering under the focus point can be useful but you run the risk of causing massive exposure issue to the scene in general and the metering will be a lot more variable.

Then there is the general issue that if your subject has a large difference in exposure compared to the background then something will not be exposed correctly. Spot metering and exposure compensation just forces the camera to expose correctly for one or the other when left alone in matrix mode will try to balance everything. In my experience when there is such a large contrast that complete auto exposure fails completely you are shooting a scene with a dynamic range beyond the sensor capabilities and something wont work out in the image. Yes, it is more important to get the subject properly exposed and spot metering or EC will help with that but if most of the image turns out to be an overexposed mess with channel clipping then you don't have a workable image anyway. In this case you need to find different solutions to get a good exposure - fill in flash, wait for subject to move to abetter location, ask subject to move, don't take the photo, ask subject to remain still and take multiple exposure to blend, change the scenes lighting, wait to another day.

 

[steve_c]

Hi D.P

Yes the 5D Mark III only takes metering off the centre. The "1" series can meter off of selected focus points.

I understand that exposure comp is the key to making this method work. I am having a tough time figuring out if it would save me any time over using manual but obviously I will give it a good shot...

I definitely can see the advantages of focusing via a different button. So I am going to try and convert as I've heard many people discuss the merits of this technique

Thanks again

 

[D.P.]

Hi D.P

Yes the 5D Mark III only takes metering off the centre. The "1" series can meter off of selected focus points.

I understand that exposure comp is the key to making this method work. I am having a tough time figuring out if it would save me any time over using manual but obviously I will give it a good shot...

I definitely can see the advantages of focusing via a different button. So I am going to try and convert as I've heard many people discuss the merits of this technique

Thanks again

i'm really shocked that the 5dMKII can't do spot metering correctly Wow, even entry level Nikon's do that, I mean that is the whole damn point of spot metering! crazy, i just can't fathom why such an expensive camera doesn't support such a basic feature

Anyway, yeah, just use exposure compensation. You will quickly learn to see that the subject would be under or over exposed before pressing the trigger. And matrix metering will nearly always do a very good job of choosing a well balanced exposure, I rarely have to bother with EC unless the contrast is way too high and there is an obvious back lit subject.


For the manual focus point selection you can reduce the number of focus points displayed if you want. The reason to have so many points of for focus tracking subjects moving in 3D under continuous AF. When you are not using continuous AF if you have lots of focus points it might slow you down, you mostly just need the spread. You also learn to leave focus select in the right place and tend not to need to move it too much. E.g., you typically want a subject to the left or the right of the frame so the selected point will typically be at a side anyway.

also switch on wrap around focusing, so e.g. you have the selected point on the right hand side and you now want a left hand side point selected, just click to the right and it will wrap around to the left for you.

Also it is fine to do small amounts of recomposing, e.g. you don't need to be exact, dependent on your aperture and how much field curvature the lens has.
E.g., at f/8 it makes much less difference, at f/1.4 up close the DoF is so tiny that a lot of care is needed to ensue that the eye is focused etc.


For moving subjects learn to use continuous focus and focus tracking. Let the camera do the hard work while you concentrate on composition and framing. Sports pros almost never select the focus point, they will use focus tracking, which is why the pro bodies always have the best focusing systems.

Edit:
bottom line if you like using manual exposure and you are fast there is nothing wrong with that. Aperture (and shutter) priority mode is designed to make it easier for most photographers and should remove unnecessary steps but if the process doesn't work for you then carry on as before.
For me, what is important when taking a photos is simply to choose an aperture that gives my desired DoF and concentrate on composition. The rest is details that I dont care about. The shutter speed needs to be sufficient, a cursory glance and flick of ISO can do that or auto ISO is even better. I don't care if the the photo was shot at 1/100 or 1/250th as long as 1/100th is fast enough to prevent all types of blur so the camera can decide.

 

[steve_c]

Great post, thanks very much D.P

I have DOF preview for AI Servo switch which has come in really useful.

There's quite an interesting thread on the spot metering issue here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5555.0

I wonder if something like Magic Lantern would unlock the feature. It's possible I suppose.

I'll definitely try less focus points. I hardly ever shoot any sports / wildlife so do not really have a need for so many options.

I'm sure that in a few days I'll finally see what all the fuss is about! I must admit that I have missed a few shots due to altering exposure in manual so hopefully I can become adept at using Av for situations which require capturing the right "moment"

Thanks again

 

[D.P.]

Great post, thanks very much D.P

I have DOF preview for AI Servo switch which has come in really useful.

There's quite an interesting thread on the spot metering issue here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5555.0

I wonder if something like Magic Lantern would unlock the feature. It's possible I suppose.

I'll definitely try less focus points. I hardly ever shoot any sports / wildlife so do not really have a need for so many options.

I'm sure that in a few days I'll finally see what all the fuss is about! I must admit that I have missed a few shots due to altering exposure in manual so hopefully I can become adept at using Av for situations which require capturing the right "moment"

Thanks again

Crazy, from that link it says that in evaluative (matrix) metering that the focus point does contribute to the exposure estimation so the focus points must be capable of spot metering. Anyway, since the evaluative metering has a weighting fro the focus point then it should get a good exposure most of the time examining the focus point exposure as well as the whole scene and come up with a balance that tries to expose for the subject without killing too many highlights. Ultimately this is typically what you want and a little EC will correct for any problems with trick situations.