Capital One Cup - Second Round 24/25 September *** Spoilers ***

Except its clear as day thats not the case, the lineups dont lie, and Aquaman is on the bench as is Masch, as I'm sure Lucas is 2nd half of the 09/10 season. Rafa liked to use the personal at his disposal and I expect all 3 would have been in and used depending on the opposition.

Anyway, kind of a pointless discussion this. You're not going to change my mind, I'm not going to change yours. I think Stevie is dog **** as a CM, you think he should be in there, 1st name of the teamsheet pretty much.

Would he be playing for us if the boot room was still around, no. Thats what we should be aiming for.
 
The line-ups don't lie in what respect? You claimed Benitez never played Gerrard alongside Masch (which as proven was plainly wrong) and asked what he'd do with our midfield options.

From the back end of the 06/07 season Benitez was trying to play Gerrard alongside of Mascherano in midfield. Our failure to sign somebody to partner Torres meant we fell upon the system with Gerrard off Torres midway through the 07/08 season, yet despite it's success our whole transfer plan (stated by Benitez) for that following summer (Alonso, Barry, Keane etc) was designed to move Gerrard back into midfield. With Keane not working out Gerrard primarily stayed off Torres that season however when Alonso finally left we signed Aquilani to play in the role Gerrard did and Benitez played Gerrard as a CM for the vast majority of the 2nd half of the following season.

Whether Mascherano or Aquilani were on the bench occasionally or not, anybody with a brain cell knew that Masch would have been just about the first name on the teamsheet in the biggest, most important games.

So answering your question as to what Rafa would have done. Yes Rafa would rotate his team and there'd be times where Gerrard played off the front with Lucas alongside Masch but he primarily moved Gerrard back into a CM role and more often than not, Masch would have been the player alongside him.

And no, I very clearly don't think Gerrard should be the first name on the teamsheet. I've said already that I think Coutinho should be the first name on the teamsheet and that I think Gerrard should be competing with Lucas (and others) to partner a powerful DM.
 
The Man U game in March of 2010 and games around it had a CM partnership of Lucas/Masch with Gerrard in the CAM position, Aqualani would either be subbed on to join Stevie in the CAM postions or play next to him from the off. He wasnt a replacement, and Stevie wasnt going to play in CM. Rafa had spent 5 years doing his hardest to make sure Stevie was no where near the middle fo the field, if he played the odd game there in Rafa's last year it was because we need an Alonso type figure, and Stevie was the best fit with the people at his disposal.

What on earth makes you think a 33 year old Steven Gerrard can play CM, when a 26-30 year old couldnt?
 
Newbie007 said:
The Man U game in March of 2010 and games around it had a CM partnership of Lucas/Masch with Gerrard in the CAM position, Aqualani would either be subbed on to join Stevie in the CAM postions or play next to him from the off. He wasnt a replacement, and Stevie wasnt going to play in CM.
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In the 16 games from March, when Aquilani started to be available for more than the odd game (he picked up a few niggles when he first came back if you remember), Gerrard played CM 11 times.
Newbie007 said:
Rafa had spent 5 years doing his hardest to make sure Stevie was no where near the middle fo the field, if he played the odd game there in Rafa's last year it was because we need an Alonso type figure, and Stevie was the best fit with the people at his disposal.
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Sorry, you're talking utter nonsense now.

Benitez openly stated that he wanted to sign Barry and Keane so that Gerrard could play alongside Mascherano in midfield & Barry tucked in on the left. So much for trying his hardest to keep Gerrard away from there.

He did not play the odd game there either. He played there the majority of the time once Aquilani was available.
Newbie007 said:
What on earth makes you think a 33 year old Steven Gerrard can play CM, when a 26-30 year old couldnt?
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Who says a 26 year old Gerrard couldn't play CM? Even in the seasons where Gerrard played on the right or further forward, he played as a CM in around half his games too. You don't half like to try to blag things and rewrite history, don't you.

You realise why Benitez played Gerrard further forward to begin with, right? Because Gerrard had the physical attributes (combined with his technical ability) to be unstoppable going forward and more importantly, we had stronger alternatives in midfield (whether that be Sissoko, Alonso or later Masch) than we did attacking alternatives.

Gerrard no longer has the physical power to play further forward, he still has the technical ability and as you said above, can play in a similar way to how Alonso did for us.
 
Your talking nonsence yourself now, which 11 games? Steven Gerrard started ahead of Aqualani in every Liverpool game where Aqualani featured in the same team as Gerrard. Aqualaninisnt even an AM anyway, more an advanced midfielder which is why he played behind Stevie who was the AM.

Keane wasn't even a Rafa signing! Which is why he was bombed out 4 months into his Liverpool career. If he was a Rafa buy he would have been given far more of a chance (Crouch 17 games to get his 1st goal should be an indicator).

You do realise right that 1st Momo, and then Masch were signed becuase we needed a Midfielder to play along side Alonso and Gerrard was never the answer because as Rafa stated on numerous occasions, that he didnt have the right attributes/game intellience to play there.

Anyway, pointless discussion this, we're just going round and round in circles and tbh I cannot be arsed with it :)
 
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It's pointless because you're trying to rewrite history and try to blag your way through discussions.

Aquilani, when he played, played ahead of Gerrard and how you can say Masch was signed to play alongside Alonso when the world knows Rafa was happy to let Alonso leave, while stating the idea was for Gerrard to play as a cm, I'll never know.
 
Newbie007 said:
Mascherano signs for Liverpool, Feb 2007
Alonso Leaves Liverpool, August 2009

You're embarrassing yourself now baz
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You can't be this stupid, surely? You know full well that Alonso was up for sale in 2008. And why was he up for sale? Because as Benitez said, he wanted to play Keane alongside Torres with Barry to the left of Gerrard & Masch.

edit: although going off your claims that Aquilani played behind Gerrard, Sissoko played alongside Alonso and Masch, and countless other things I suppose it is possible that you are that clueless.
 
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Newbie007 said:
Even going by those figures thats still a season and a half difference, surely you cant be that stupid eh
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Jesus Christ! Mascherano only signed on a permanent deal in February 2008.

How can you claim that Masch was signed specifically to play alongside Alonso when within a month or so of Masch signing on loan (and breaking into the side), Alonso was left out of the CL semi final in favour of a Gerrard/Masch partnership? And then after Mascherano was signed on a permanent and established himself as the main man in midfield, Alonso was put up for sale the very next transfer window?

Bit over the top Baz.
 
Newbie007 said:
Main man and yet had fewer appearances than Alonso that season eh? you don't half talk some ****.
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Mascherano 41 appearances, Alonso 27. Fat fingers struggling with the calculator?

If you're going to accuse people of talking ****, you end up looking doubly stupid when you're the one wrong :p

edit: keep digging though Newbie. Maybe in future you won't resort to making things up to support your point.
 
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Newbie007 said:
Alonso
Mascherano

do keep up
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Are you a bit dim? Masch signed on loan in February 2007 and already began displacing Alonso towards the end of that season. During the next season (07/08 season when he was signed permanently) he played 41 games compared to Alonso's 27 and was clearly first choice. Alonso was then put up for sale that summer but not sold until the following year :)

Read it twice to make sure you understand this time.
 
BaZ87 said:
Are you a bit dim? Masch signed on loan in February 2007 and already began displacing Alonso towards the end of that season. During the next season (07/08 season when he was signed permanently) he played 41 games compared to Alonso's 27 and was clearly first choice. Alonso was then put up for sale that summer but not sold until the following year :)

Read it twice to make sure you understand this time.
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So you're now comparing an injury ravaged year from Alonso to a injury free year by Masch, & you're asking who the dim one is? :eek: Keep it up though, i'm enjoying this
 
Newbie007 said:
So you're now comparing an injury ravaged year from Alonso to a injury free year by Masch, & you're asking who he dim one is? :eek: Keep it up though, i'm enjoying this
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**** me, it's not an act, you're that stupid. You're the one that brought up appearance stats, I merely stated that Mascherano had established himself as first choice in midfield. Something backed up by the fact that within a few months of signing on loan he was already being picked ahead of Alonso in a CL semi and every major game there on in.

It's further backed up by the fact that Alonso was put up for sale the very next window after we secured the permanent signing of Masch. So much for Benitez signing him specifically to play alongside Masch.

But carrying on clutching at straws. This isn't the first time you've tried to rewrite history or blag your way through a debate. Even within this exchange you've made up countless other things, seemingly thinking I hadn't watch the Utd match and so on.
 
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